Episode 83: All I Ever Wanted (with Kathy Valentine)

Episode Transcript

Note: a machine made this, so it’s not perfect, but if you’re hearing impaired and have any questions about what we said, please feel free to ask us in the comments or send us an email with the form below. 

[00:00:00] Emily: welcome to the, get off set podcast. My name is Emily.

Andrew M.: My name is Andrew,

Emily: and today is a very exciting day. We have Kathy Valentine. Who’s probably best known for her work with the Go-Go’s. Hey, Kathy,

Kathy: how are you doing? I’m doing good. Thank you. I was just letting that sink in

Emily: because just let it sink in. It hasn’t quite sunk in with

Kathy: us.

Emily: So, it’s, this is really exciting for me, cause I remember being like 10 and learning about the Go-Go’s and just big, really exciting. Cause I had just got a guitar. Oh, just like watching VH1. I think I saw some old videos, maybe a behind the music. I was like, Oh my God.

Kathy: Wow. well, yeah, I mean, I think, I don’t know when, when you were 10, so, but if it behind the music was out, then you were probably, you were probably pretty young.

So you, you were talking about like, after the heyday, after the eighties, you found the,

Emily: yeah, I was 10 and like, 1999. So I might’ve been a little bit older when that was starting the reunion and everything.

Kathy: Yeah.

Emily: I was still pretty new to the guitar and didn’t have a lot of role models, I suppose.

Kathy: Well, that’s so good.

I mean, I didn’t realize that I didn’t realize that, that we would have been like, kind of in the orbit for someone that young, you know, so that I liked that like a lot of females I talked to that are musicians. And I love this cause it just, I didn’t realize at the time in the late nineties and two thousands, but they looked up to Avril Levine.

Like she was the first female they ever saw playing guitar. And, and it’s kinda kind of a cool thing that, that this torch kind of just keeps getting passed on. And that, you know, who knows who she looked up to were probably, she probably was not even born when they go goes, where. So anyway, it’s just kind of neat how the cycle keeps going.

Emily: Yeah, it, I mean, don’t get me wrong. I love me some Avril lovey when I was, you know, that, that age, but, it is really cool. And I had parents who always just wanted me to listen to, what they kind of. Grew up with, my mom. So my mom was always cool. My mom, she listened to everything from like Jackson Brown and that early countries, country rock stuff.

And then she ended up being huge, like riot girl fan. So she love for RUCA salt and whole. And so I got quite a mix and I’m pretty thankful for that.

Kathy: Yeah, that’s really great. I, I, I think, you know, I just did, I just did a big online event with Kathleen Hannah, and it was so, so cool to just have that generation that can cause like you, she, but we were, she, she saw the Go-Go’s and it really kind of crystallized a lot of things for her and, you know, made it, made it seem like something that was possible for her life too.

Emily: Yeah, it’s, it’s something that I would love to talk about more just in general, a representation. but it’s a little early to get deep into the topic. So, I’m going to ask Andrew, what’s new with you, dude.

Andrew M.: What’s new with me, a good gravy. I feel like I’m always unprepared when he asked that question every week

Kathy: I ask it every week.

I know

Andrew M.: it’s something I really should see it coming. And yet somehow I’m like, Oh, Oh wait. Oh my goodness. Oh, it’s my turn. Oh,

Emily: what did I do this week? Time, time is meeting last man.

Andrew M.: Time is a figment of my imagination at this point in time,

Emily: distance traveled.

Andrew M.: No this week, I, had a little bit of work to do with the old J job, typical, typical.

but I’m rearranging my gear. I’m just a little bit, I am excited. I just pulled out a couple of my childhood skateboard decks out of the garage and as beat up as they are, I, they mean enough to me where I felt like they needed to be hung up on the wall. So I just hung them up last night in between a couple of my guitars.

Emily: How’d you hang them up? Cause I just, I have, are there wheels on it still or is it just a deck deck? Yeah, I have one from, X games, Austin hanging in between my guitars on the wall. Yeah,

Andrew M.: I remember that one. so I’m doing that. I got a new bookshelf. one of my best friends from the Seattle area just moved to Minnesota, had to get rid of some furniture and.

As sad as I am to see them go. I’m also very grateful for the bookshelf. So

Emily: I get that. I get that. I, I envy people in Minnesota. I just think it’s a great place.

Andrew M.: There is one major downside to Minnesota is,

Emily: they don’t the [00:05:00] summers.

Andrew M.: no, if you go to a restaurant order, large Coke, they’ll say, sorry. We only serve many sodas.

Kathy: Ah,

I remember being on tour once and being amazed because I’d never realized that my other stops on tour in Minneapolis. but we were there in the winter and the walkways that connected everything. I was like, how the heck did they do this? Where you could

Emily: just a single building. It’s amazing.

Kathy: Unbelievable and how I didn’t even realize maybe cause I was there in the summer before and nobody was doing it, but wow. Anyway, really cool. Yeah. That’s my big, my big contribution to this combo.

Emily: I love the skyways. I love Minnesota though. It does get quite cold,

Kathy: great

Andrew M.: place. I’ve only driven through the corner of Minnesota.

On my way to Wisconsin. Yeah. Because a few summers back, I drove from Omaha, Nebraska, across the de Moines up through the corner of Minnesota and then across, straight across in the heart of Wisconsin. that was, so I just pass right on the outskirts of Minneapolis. I think.

Emily: Yeah, you should stop in sometime

Kathy: I was,

Emily: I was going to plan a trip there this year to see a girlfriend and her, her, her babies, but it’s not,

Kathy: not a great time.

Andrew M.: We all know what happened there.

Emily: Happy belated birthday to my dear friend, Lindley. She just had a birthday on the 13th.

Kathy: Oh,

Andrew M.: yay.

Emily: Yeah, once she and I had a, we went to college together and my birthday’s on the 10th. Hers is on the 13th. We did a joint birthday party and cake and the cake ended up saying happy birthday and MULU with Lucinda.

And then, the friends who came, they just kind of like stared at the cake for a minute. And they, at some point were like, are you going to sing us happy birthday? And they’re like, Oh yeah, Wow. Wow. Wow. I know it’s the end of the semester, but wow. And you had to make a girl feel loved.

Andrew M.: Well, and speaking of birthdays, Emily, your birthday was last week,

Emily: last mother’s day,

Andrew M.: indeed.

And how did that go?

Emily: It wasn’t really well. My husband, Rick set up, a big surprise zoom party. So he video chatted a bunch of family and friends, and it was really awkward and really made me feel quite loved and good. And I liked it a lot. he got, he didn’t make dinner. That’s fine. He, bought, he ordered a dinner that was really, really nice from a asadero and Ballard, highly recommend it.

Andrew M.: It was that whole meal. Really? Really good.

Emily: Yeah. It was really good. I never had a Tomahawk steak before, and I probably won’t again, because it just seems indulgent. This is sometimes food. but it was probably the best baked potato I’ve ever had in my life. And the asparagus. I’ve never seen such large asparagus stocks.

They kept making me laugh. Now,

Andrew M.: rumor has it. There’s also a pedal involved with the first day. Oh, right, right. To the chase here,

Emily: straight to the Gary. That’s all you want to talk about. You just want to talk about my gear.

Andrew M.: I do like talking about food. Don’t get me wrong, but here.

Emily: So he got me, the Cooper affects arcades ambient version.

It’s pretty neat. So that’s a new, new pedal from Cooper effects and it’s, it’s really interesting. It’s more of a pedal platform. And then there are these little, these little cards you put in and they all have different effect types on them. And each has like eight different T affects. So I have the delay in the reverb, so I have eight different delays.

Eight different reverbs. Each one has eight different parameters that you can control for them are the same for each pedal and then each effect, and then four are different and it’s, it’s, it’s a trip. It’s a great pedal. I spent, I think I spent 30 minutes last night filming a demo just, well, I spend more than 30 minutes filming it.

The demo is going to be 30 minutes just for the delay chip.

Andrew M.: Oh, wow. Yeah, no, I saw a picture of it. I remember seeing a photo of her for the first time, a couple months back and being really thoroughly confused as to why someone had a key chain hanging on the top of their, like the corner of their pedal board.

And, and it’s, it’s like if Nintendo made it an effects, pedal like little gain cartridges.

Emily: Yeah. So, so Kathy, for you to visualize it, it’s just, it’s. Square pedal. And then there you insert at the, on the top that just a little like SD size or USB size kind of card. yeah, and I, I would never want to take this on state.

I think it’s a great pedal, but I’d be so afraid to have it on, on a stage. I just,

Kathy: what is, what are you put, what is the card holding? What information.

Emily: It holds the different effects. So you, you have a delay, you can have [00:10:00] delay, you can have pit shifting, you can have reverb. So it controls what kind of type of pedal it is.

And then, each card has eight different modes. So you might, it has like a digital delay or more of a tape kind of delay. and then you can, you can kind of sort through those on the pedal itself.

Kathy: So you’d have to be like switching the card out if you wanted, or you just have more, you would have different, you would have, several of the pedals.

Emily: I think he would just pick which one you liked, but, or I guess you could switch them around, but yeah, it’s kind of like, I don’t know if you’ve ever played with an H nine, how it can do like 500 different effects, but you can only use one at a time.

Kathy: No, I have not. I’m very, I’m very old school and basic with my pedals.

That’s

Emily: nothing wrong

Kathy: with that.

Emily: It gets, it gets to be a lot for sure. Yeah. But, that’s what’s new is me, Kathy. What’s what’s up with you. What’s going

Kathy: on? Well, my daughter is 17 and she still gets to be a senior next year. So she’s, didn’t get ripped off for graduation and all that, but she, she’s finishing school and I’m been, I have a book out that came out.

It was so exciting for me to, to not only be a first time author, but I was really stepping out in terms of. Not being just a cool chick and a cool band. I was going to go out on the road and do a 23 city book tour where I was going to play songs. And, you know, it was just kind of exciting to me cause I’ve, I’ve realized that I just never really, I always put all my.

Energy and time and to my band, you know, pushing the band forward. And I was like, God, I’m going to just go out there and be me. And it was kind of scary, but really exciting. And then it all got canceled. So to take the place of that kind of promotion, I’m pretty much just like. Online promoting and, and, you know, feeding the social media, beast is just such a job to like, okay, I’m gonna make this cool little video and I’m going to do this flashback and this throwback, and then I’m in this.

And I’m in that. I mean, I get into it cause I’m kind of just like a project oriented, but, I’m, I’m getting anxious to. Kind of crack open a session and start making some music. And I think that’s what I’m going to start doing. Cause I, you know, it’s like, it just gets old, just kind of, not being, I don’t know, just you feel like you’re just, I feel like I’m pushing, you know, all the time.

Oh, check it out. And it’s still my job, you know? I don’t know. So that’s what the last. Six to eight weeks has been for me, a lot of, a lot of interviews and zooming and stuff like that. And meeting people and this new way of meeting people. And it’s been really cool. Cool. But I also want to start writing another book.

I’m busy. I’m just like, I can’t believe how fast a day goes by when you know, When you’re kind of not going out and doing all the things you do in normal life. Like we used to do, you know, like it never felt like there was enough time in the day. Cause you’re just out doing all your errands and out in the world.

And, and now it’s like, you’re not out as much as the day still just flies. Why I look up? I’m like crap, it’s 10 o’clock at night.

Emily: Yeah, no, it’s, it’s really, I really thought that things would feel like they were dragging a lot more and I’m, I’m sure for a lot of people, it does. I just keep thinking, like, I don’t really understand how people who don’t have hobbies are, are living right now.

Kathy: Yeah, well, maybe they’re making some new hobbies. I hope so. I

Emily: hope so. I really hope so.

Kathy: I mean, I got out all my jewelry stuff. I thought I’m going to make some really cool jewelry and, cause I just have, I could just collect old stuff and I don’t know. I just, I like the idea of it, but my eyesight’s gotten kind of bad.

So it’s like now I’m trying to, I was online looking for like big, like. Like lights with magnifying glasses that I could clamp onto the table, because I don’t know, even the readers don’t work for like doing little teeny things with your hands.

Emily: They make those little helping hands that have the magnifying glass and then the clamps, which I think would be helpful with jewelry.

Kathy: Yeah. So I want to do that and, I don’t know. So no shit. It’s just, I’ve enjoyed having I’ve enjoyed it. I liked being home and I, I sat in that I’m not social, but I like being with my teenager. Cause she would normally be with her friends all the time. So we’ve had some really good just hang out time that we had.

Emily: That’s awesome.

Kathy: Yeah. So

Emily: you gotta make the best of it.

Andrew M.: I definitely resonate with the whole, like the day just disappears so quickly. It’s really funny. So I was listening to your book this week and the other night, a [00:15:00] kid went to sleep, family, went to sleep, and I just stayed up working late on a project and was listening to the, the, the audio book.

And next thing I know the sun’s coming up and I was very confused

Kathy: with my book. That’s awesome. Yeah,

Andrew M.: it was about five 30 in the morning. Sun was certain right. I was thoroughly confused and equally frightened because I had worked at 8:00 AM.

Kathy: I

Emily: remember seeing that message and I didn’t realize it was because you were listening to the book.

That’s cool.

Andrew M.: Yeah, it was just, I had the book on it just made it easy to, I was doing chores around the house and working on it, a labor of love kind of project. And, it just kind of, I looked up and I was like, The sky is turning colors. I have not done any hallucinogenics.

Kathy: The birds are chirping,

Andrew M.: right?

This is not real wrap things up. Got my two hours of sleep.

Kathy: You just like triggered me with like, back to the, my hard core days. Like when I would be like all, like not because I was doing. Productive nice things. And, and just that feeling of horror that like, Oh God, I’ve got to do something in like two hours.

And I’m like just raw. And, and, anyway, and the birds are chirping.

Andrew M.: Yep. It doesn’t happen to be very much these days and a bit more pedestrian as a human being than I was in college. But, Yeah, it definitely threw me for a loop and wasn’t really prepared for just how quickly time disappears.

Emily: Yeah.

Especially when you’re doing something that you’re enjoying, which almost makes it

Kathy: sad. Right. If you want time to drag.

Emily: Oh my God.

Kathy: If we could just have fun and plank at the same time, you know, life would be solved.

Emily: Get on a treadmill and then see how exactly how fast time flies it does not.

Andrew M.: I feel like I’ve been running for an hour, three and a half minutes.

Emily: Well, I know it’s like, if I want a three minute song to sound like it’s 20 minutes long, I’ve listened to a lot running.

Kathy: There you go. I think we’ve like solved life right here.

Emily: I feel like this episode is now just about how time doesn’t make sense.

Andrew M.: It really doesn’t. I think it’s one of life’s cruelties that time flies when you’re having fun.

I always thought that was such like a cute thing to say when you were a kid and then I grew up, not that I’m starting to grow up a little bit. I’m not that old, but it feels so cruel.

Kathy: Well, you know, it makes, you know, it makes time fly. Even more than fun is having a kid it’s like you just blank. And you’re like, ah, what happened to the last 16 years?

You know, what, what happened to this baby? It’s like, and then you see it with your friends, kids too. Like you see your friend and like, wait, I thought your kid was three. Why are they, why are they 15 now? So kids make it go by really fast too. Even it doesn’t even have to be your own. Just looking at your friends that have them.

It’s bizarre.

Emily: Yeah. Seriously like, wait, your kid’s graduating high school. Oh man. I’m pretty sure I held that kid when it was like a week old.

Kathy: Yeah.

Emily: Oh, no, I find myself like, if I’m excited for like something that’s coming up later, I, I find myself like I have to make myself not wish for the time to pass for some reason, like the idea of me, like hoping for time to pass, kind of bums me out.

I don’t know why it’s probably just the anxiety disorder.

Andrew M.: Well, shall we, I jump into sponsors real quick.

Emily: Yes. This week’s episode of the get off set podcast is sponsored by all the blood noise endeavors who just released their new overdrive distortion pedal, the fault version too.

Andrew M.: And it’s got faders on the pedal.

Emily: Does it has faders for a three band EEQ it’s got a foot switch with a two foot switches with two different game stages. I really like this, this distortion pedal. I figured I would because it’s old blood noise endeavors, but, I’m definitely gonna make room for it on my PERMA board.

Andrew M.: No that’s saying something.

Cause you only keep like five pedals on a board at a time

Emily: that’s less is more, less is more. And actually I might take this one pedal and swap out two pedals. So I might have a smaller board even.

Andrew M.: No, I love the design. I think they knocked out of the park and me being just a very visual human and just, I don’t like screens.

I just like knobs and the idea of having faders even on a pedal, just sounds really nice in the sense of, I can look at it and know immediately what I need to adjust based on what I’m hearing and just keep playing the show. I mean, that’s just sounds really nice.

[00:20:00] Emily: Yeah. No, that’s that is nice screens make life difficult.

I don’t have any puddles with screens on my board.

Andrew M.: I don’t yet. And I’ve been fighting it, but one of these days, I’m going to end up with a, with a pedal with it, with a digital screen. It’s going to really throw me off.

Emily: Yeah, probably

Andrew M.: anyways, all of that to say, hold blood nose endeavors. You guys knocked it out of the park and we could not be more excited for you guys.

Emily: Yeah, that was fun because the day I launched that pedal demo, I got a thousand subscribers on the YouTube page. Thanks to Steve, especially Steve from 60 cycle. Hum. What, what, what, yeah, it gave me a little shout out and the next thing I knew I was, I was, I had reached the milestone.

Andrew M.: Oh, that was, that’s so exciting to see like that milestone hit and we haven’t even been running the, the YouTube channel for that long relatively.

I feel like that was a really quick

Emily: since September. Like mid, mid to late September when I was really mad at some guy who said that women didn’t do geared demos. So I showed him

Kathy: yay. I’m I’m late to YouTube, to a swipe. For some reason, I just. I just never paid that one much attention. And of course that’s the one that’s the most important in terms of actually building a brand or, or building a, whatever you’re trying to build. It just, it seems pretty evident that the things I ignored are the most important thing.

So I’m late to the YouTube game too. Trying to build it up and, you know, just, Oh great. Another thing I get to see content too, but you know, when we’re, when we’re out there trying to kind of create, you know, a vibe or a platform or just an engagement, thing that not only helps us find our niche in the world, but you know, it kind of just creates whatever it is we’re trying to build.

It’s so necessary.

Emily: It is important. I don’t, I don’t know if it’s necessarily the most important, but it’s definitely one of the bigger, the bigger players out there. And it’s, it’s a place that people should, should try to be. I think probably all of

Andrew M.: that to say, I, I, I readily admit that my involvement in the YouTube channel has been relatively minimal.

And so I would just like to take this moment to say special. Congratulations to Emily. You’ve put in a ton of hard work into this and the fruits of your labor are showing it well done.

Emily: Thank you. I did it all by myself.

No help or anybody, but nobody helped me do anything.

That’s a lie, but I think we all have that. I think my cat’s about to start her own YouTube channel. She’s sitting right in front of one of the cameras in the lighting rig, just staring at me wondering why I closed the door.

Andrew M.: Yeah,

Emily: well, she’s fine.

Andrew M.: Her other sponsor for this episode is

Emily: Lawler pickups. They started just South of here, Tacoma, Washington.

they make the best pickups in the business is my humble opinion, and I’m really excited to try the new blade master pickups for Jazzmasters.

Andrew M.: Yeah, it’s always good to have a sponsor local here from Washington or anywhere in the Pacific Northwest for that matter. Always really exciting to see that.

Emily: Yeah.

Andrew M.: Yeah.

Emily: Shop local. No, they’re growing it. I mean, I’ve had their pickups in a couple of guitars and they always just sound so good. So I need to bust out the soldering iron today and swap those out probably, or this weekend.

Kathy: What’s the rush,

Emily: you know, you know, I don’t know

Kathy: what

Andrew M.: the weekend I thought is it today?

Monday? Does it matter? Do we even know? I’m barely a figment of our imaginations

Emily: plate. That’s a little heavy handed, but cool. I’ll allow it. yeah, so we’ve kind of talked a little bit about, about it, but Kathy has a book out called all I ever wanted. It starts at the beginning. And it goes basically through your attorney with at least the early stage of a sobriety and the first Go-Go’s reunion.

but before we talk about the book, I just gotta say, I love this book. I started listening to the audio book and I really liked it, but I need to read it faster. So then I went over to the actual written copy cause I’m a fast reader. I, I can’t believe this was your first book. It just, it feels so well-written.

Kathy: Thank you. I, I really am proud of it. I have to say I’m super proud. It was, it was really hard. It’s not like writing a song. I mean, the, the focus and the discipline has to still sustain over. Years and, you know, it was really challenging and there was times I wanted to give [00:25:00] up, but it was important to me, not only because I think it’s important for women to tell our stories, women and music that have had passion for music.

And that was what drove me even before I was a musician. Like so many of us music was, you know, rock and roll saved me, just like Lou Reed says. And, so, but I also wanted to be a writer and I thought, well, if I do a really good job on this book, people will go, Oh, she’s not just the bass player in the Gogo.

She’s not just the musician and the guitar player in this band or the person that wrote vacation. She’s she’s writes really good books too. So it was important to me that it’d be good. Cause I wanted, I wanted to expand what’s people’s Version of me was, you know, do you ever, I don’t know if you guys have ever experienced that, but it’s, and it can be, I’m not talking just about celebrity.

I’m talking about just in your life. Like, you know, people just get a version of you and sometimes you just, it can be weird to like, wait a minute. You’ll, you’ll be talking to someone that you think knows you really well. And you’re like, wait, that’s not how I am. Yeah.

Emily: People pick roles for you. People pick roles for everybody in their life, and it’s kind of hard to break out of those.

Sometimes

Kathy: it can be, and I think it’s important because then you start getting limited by other people’s perceptions and, you know, I’ve. I’ve been defined by the Go-Go’s, which is awesome. I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t, you know, ever not be grateful for that. I’m filled with gratitude, but at the same time, I have a lot more that I’ve done that I’m capable of.

And, you know, I don’t really need everyone to acknowledge it. I don’t really need to be recognized for it, but it’s important for me that I do it and that I keep, you know, kind of. Offering evidence and for myself that, Hey, you know, so anyway, I wanted to do a good job and I’m glad that I’m glad it’s resonating.

And I just want to make sure people understand that this is you don’t have to be a Go-Go’s fan to get a lot. Out of this book and enjoy it. It’s really about a musician. It’s about somebody that loves music. It’s a very human story about obstacles and resilience and strength and family stuff, not being parented, making a lot of mistakes, not facing up to sadness, betrayal, abandonment, all kinds of fun stuff and not so fun stuff.

And what we are journeys that we can all relate and bond over. That’s

Emily: my theory. Yeah. Yeah. I felt that the storytelling, the, in the book was, was really strong and I, I enjoyed reading it. I, I really did, was loving the audio book, especially the little musical musical interludes. Andrew listened to more of it than I did, but did you get the same.

The same enjoyment out of that, Andrew?

Andrew M.: Oh, absolutely. For me, a lot of the material was a lot for me to process and kind of just, okay, so this happened and then this happened and they’re just, it’s so emotionally charged, but in the, in a really good way, I think the music gave me a really good chance to kind of recap, each of the, the chapters and the sections and the chapters of her, of Kathy’s life, and in a meaningful way.

I think it broke it up really nicely. And I haven’t really heard that used in audio book format before I thought that was absolutely brilliant. It just made the experience that much better. I mean, as I said before, I bet has to stay up until the sun started coming up, just listening to it. And I wasn’t feeling tired.

I wasn’t feeling like I was, I didn’t feel like I was trying to force myself to stay awake. I was just fully captured into the story and the storytelling and the it’s such, it’s a very human story. And I really appreciate the vulnerability that you put into this

Emily: vulnerability is a good word for sure.

That’s not always easy.

Kathy: No. I mean, I, it took me a long time in my life before I could kind of cast off the, the, you know, Oh, everything’s fine. I’m strong. I’m not weak. I’m I’m, you know, that’s, that’s just, that’s how I felt I had to be to survive like an, a vulnerable vulnerability is something I equated with weakness and weaknesses.

Like, you know, the injured animal that the. That the predators eight. So it took me a long time to kind of embrace and be open and, and, and be in a way you’re not really fully human. You really aren’t, you know, if you can’t be, you know, At least acknowledge to yourself, you know, that that you’re hurt or that you’re sad or any of that stuff.

So, yeah, it was important to me to get that all the feelings on the page, whether it was something like what we’re talking about or whether it was joy or, or exuberance. I just wanted those feelings on the page because everybody has. [00:30:00] Felt those things. Everybody has worked hard for something and no one knows what it feels like to kind of move forward or get what you’re trying to get.

And everyone has lost things and knows that kind of devastation and loss, and everybody has felt proud of themselves or let their pride get in the way of things. So I’m really glad to hear this. And, and the music was something I’m glad you enjoyed that because. I wasn’t sure how I would deliver the music.

I call it a soundtrack to the book, and I was really excited to do that because. Musically men, I could do anything I wanted, you know, it very much is like a solo album and you can get the soundtrack separate from the book, but, as a, as a download or you can stream it on any, any of the usual places. So, but I wasn’t sure how to integrate it into the story.

And I. Really wanted to make it a part of the audio book, but I was worried, I was worried like, will people be able to skip over the song? Will they be able to come back and listen whenever they want? And I found a great audio book publisher that just. Was so into it and it made me really, cause it’s almost like a podcast more than an audio book, you know, in that there’s also underlying music.

Like when I, when I’m narrating about starting my first band, you, I found the cassette and I digitized it. And you hear my first band in our second rehearsal, like underneath. And when I talk about, you know, like, Practicing guitar and wanting to just get my Chuck Barry mom, mom, wanting to get that down.

And I have a recording of me doing that. And so I tried to make it kind of an immersive. With the music

Andrew M.: completely immersive. And I, that was definitely one of my followup questions. Is, is this going to be a soundtrack separate? I didn’t have a chance to look that up on the, on the interweb, but really exciting to hear that that’s going to be available.

Kathy: Yeah, it is available already. And, it’s, it’s very different, you know, people. It’s because I thought of it as a soundtrack, it really meant, and I could do whatever I wanted and I would sit down. I would just look at my book. I finished the book and I like a chapter would just jump out. I go, that sounds like a song title.

And I had no idea, but I always wanted to capture. Sonically the mood of the chapter. Like if it’s a chapter about the home invasion where I escaped death, you know, I

Emily: wanted that, that blew my mind.

Kathy: Yeah. And

Emily: I was so sad. I was so scared reading it

Kathy: and musically in the track that goes with that chapter, I think I really wanted to capture not only the, you know, and with beats and sounds like that ominous feeling and yet the confusion and the, the.

Just feeling it just added to this utterly lost where I just didn’t feel safe. I didn’t have anything to, to get my bearings and musically, I wanted to capture that. And so it was really fun because I could also make beats and, and just put down like sounds and, and, bass grooves or guitar, riffing and stuff, and, and sometimes do spoken, chanting or not chanting, like, but.

Yeah, I don’t want to say like hip hop, but I had that I had that, freedom to do whatever I wanted to get the Sonic message across.

Emily: Yeah, I think, I think you do that very well.

Andrew M.: So one of the things that I was really struck by as I was listening through the book, as a man and who really cares about the women in my life and, playing a supporting role for them and doing my best to encourage one of the things I found really.

Really fascinating was you said several times throughout the book about how the musicians and the male musicians, your life were always the supporting ones. And it was the media that wasn’t as the, the radio drama.

Emily: Yeah, the real, the real musicians, the men who are real musicians, for sure.

Kathy: Yeah. And I didn’t ever consciously realize that until I wrote the book and I started seeing a pattern emerge and I.

I have that kind of brain where I recognize patterns, you know, so I was always looking for re repetition of things. And I just started noticing that, wow, throughout my career guy, musicians, who are all I had to look up to. And in 1974 in Austin, there were no females in bands. There was some singers, but there was no women in bands.

And when I saw Suzi, Quatro, Playing on TV in England. That’s the whole reason that I started thinking I could even be in a band and having an electric guitar instead of being a folky or something. So, but I, the only people I had to encourage me were the guys that were there, musicians around Austin and the pattern emerged from the time I started all the way up [00:35:00] to even.

The book ends in 1990. When I get Schober and as a sober musician, I’m just like, okay, now what am I going to do? I’m not a Gogo. What am I? I’m not, I’m not like a teenager learning guitar in Austin, Texas anymore. I’m I’m I’m 30 years old. What am I about musically? And even at that point, it was like all the guys around me who were musicians like, Hey, let’s just, let’s do a band together.

You figure it out, write some songs. We’ll we’ll record with you. So. I liked acknowledging that because women are always approached with the question about, you know, what, what kind of sexism do you deal with? And it’s a really legitimate question is there’s very much a patriarchy all over society and culture.

So it’s a legitimate question and it gets a lot of, You know, it’s a line of questioning that always comes up with you’re a woman. So it was nice to be able to also acknowledge that.

Emily: So there’s good, valid allyship out there.

Kathy: Absolutely support and allies. And I think that, you know, I think it’s because, you know, if you’re a musician or something, you know, you, what you really are gonna, if you’re in it for the right reasons, which you’re probably going to attract those musicians anyway, I’m not going to attract the massage dentist.

You know, that’s not, what’s going to happen in my life is. And so they’re going to be surprised. They just want, they just want somebody, they want. So one that’s into it. They want another, a compadre who’s into music. Yeah.

Emily: Yeah. And I’ve, I’ve experienced a good amount of that as well. I’ve experienced it almost more with, the, the skier channel this year, review YouTube and the podcast almost than I have in music, because I think there’s a stronger community of women now, but I.

I love that there are groups on Facebook that I’m a part of that are women trying to support each other and lift each other up and promote each other and work with each other. At the same time, I haven’t, I haven’t had a man hire me for a gig since 2012. Maybe it’s all been, it’s all been women who are interested in working with me and, you know, I did take a bit of a break there in the middle.

And I mean, I’ve had, I’ve had been hiring me for marketing and writing and those other things and like books and gigs with my band and work with us. But I haven’t had in a long time, a male musician willing to hire me for my work with guitar. And that, that follows me a little.

Kathy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get that.

And I have to say, I. But when I was going to go out and do this book tour, and I was going to play some songs for my, soundtrack and I was really struggling with it because what I did was all in my studio and. I had a lot of sounds. And so I wasn’t sure how I was going to reduce it down to just me and I was messing around with a looping pedal and then I thought I don’t want to be dragging stuff all over the country.

And so I decided to go to guitar center and just see what there was in terms of little port. You know, it’s been a long time since I, you know, took a little portable amp in my suitcase somewhere. I thought there’s gotta be some coalition stuff out. So I went and checked out this little app. The guy I wanted to strangle him because he takes it, he takes it and he takes it up to the counter.

He gets his guitar, he plugs it in to him to show me what it sounds like. And then he starts like saying, and this is the tribal law. Then you turn this to do this, and then you can, you can do this switch. And I’m just like looking at him and I’m thinking. I was, I wanted to say, I have been doing this for 45 years and I mean, I, and I just like, Oh, I was, I was speechless and my daughter was there and she could see my face.

She can read my face, like a book and she could see me just getting more and more like going from annoyed to like slightly annoyed, to more annoyed, to. You know, just short of rage.

And I think I finally said, you know, I’ve been doing this since way before you were born. And I know what, I know how to get a sound. I know how to get the sound. I want it. Yeah, I know what all this little knobs do. Oh my God. So

Emily: I can tell what they do.

Andrew M.: The gain knob is not a volume knob. It’s a common misconception

Emily: increases the volume, Andrew.

Kathy: So sexism is alive and well at the guitar center. And, you know, But I’m not going to, no, I’m going to take that back because that’s not fair. It’s not fair to label it to a whole place. Cause I’ve seen lots of women working at guitar center

[00:40:00] Emily: at like guitar stores across the country.

Kathy: For sure.

Andrew M.: It definitely, it can be.

I worked. So I worked for guitar center for a couple of years and I had kind of a mixed experience in that realm. That would differ. I worked at two different locations and at one location, they hired a lot more women. It was very much more empowering, kind of. Environment. And whenever some of the customers would give any of my female employees, shit, like it was immediately like someone else was jumping up like, Hey, you know, I’ll just go ahead and take care of this.

And I’ll walk you out to the car. If that guy’s going to be like cat calling you while you’re checking them out, like that kind of stuff. So those are really great environment. The other environment was a little bit that particular location had Yelp reviews about how bad it was.

Kathy: And

Andrew M.: I only worked there for a short period of time before I left the company, I was just really thrown by like, really?

This is. Normal to talk to. She clearly knows what she’s talking about. This is, it just really kind of hurt my brain, to stand back and not being able to, I mean, it’s not my sales, so I don’t get in the middle of someone else’s sale. That’s kind of rude as a salesperson at the same time. I almost want to be like, yo dude, that’s not okay.

But I mean, I, I definitely agree. I’d be very hesitant to brush, to brush with broad strokes because there’s a lot of great people in that company and that there’s so many people that, have worked for and currently work for guitar center that I think do a really excellent job on this

Kathy: front. Yeah. Yeah.

That’s I didn’t want to call them that mouth as a company, but I was, I was astounded in Austin, Texas, where we have like amazing female musicians. Like why you would assume that especially a 60 year w why would a 60 year old mean, okay. I don’t look 60, but, why would somebody, Oh my God. Anyway, so, The other place she’s good at is like tech.

Like, you know, people assuming that because I’m a woman, I don’t know how to dig into my Mac. And you know, like if I’ve called anyone for help, it’s because I’ve tried everything, you know, including the forums. I know how to, I know how to troubleshoot. I know how to fix things. I know how to. And yet they’ll start with the very basic stuff.

And you’re like, I know, I know I’ve done that. I called you. Cause I’ve done that. I’ve done that. I’ve done that. And I’ve done that, you know,

Emily: start the call. So here’s what I’ve done. I’ve turned it off and I’ve turned it back on. I’ve updated. This I’ve updated that I’ve looked at this, I Googled this, I tried this, I tried this and that’s exhausting,

Kathy: like,

Emily: Whoa.

Okay. All right. Okay. All right. I, one of the reasons I started modeling my own guitars. So it was because I was so sick of taking it into texts and just getting. Talk down to about like the changes I want to make on my own instrument. So I feel that really heavily and personally, my favorite is still, if you go to buy some cables and then the guy says, are you sure these are the cables he wants?

And you’re like, who

Kathy: he

Emily: very good. Very good.

Andrew M.: You see, cable capacitance is a.

Emily: This is that copper, that, that oxygen

Andrew M.: oxygen in it, it allows the trouble to pass through better.

Emily: That’s not real science.

Kathy: I get it. I get the, the look when I get my 11 gauge strings. And they’re just like, like, how can you play those? And I’m like, cause.

Fricking shred and because, you know, they need to withstand my shredding hands. I’m sorry. You know,

Emily: my hands are just so strong.

Kathy: You’re so weak. I

Andrew M.: feel really attacked because I put nines on strats.

Kathy: Well, so does, yeah, no, there’s, there’s a place for that wobbly too, but for life

Emily: doesn’t Billy Gibbons plates,

Kathy: Billy plays, I was just going to say, Billy likes him like spaghetti.

Andrew M.: I’m not, I don’t actually feel attacked. I just kidding around, but Eleven’s are great. I just have, I feel like I’m bringing an animal every time I’m playing them and it’s not bowing to my will. So hats off to that.

Kathy: Well, I’m also, I’m a lefty. So my left hand it’s like, if I don’t have something really like cables underneath it, because my cause I play right handed.

So I need to, I, that they need to stay in place. They need to be able to withstand that mighty left hand, gripping them. Those. Those notes on

Emily: that makes a lot of sense,

Andrew M.: actually, 62

Kathy: stret I have a 62 strap, but I, I don’t, take it to gigs much anymore for a couple reasons. One thing I, I thought somebody had walked off with it once and I just went psychotic, ballistic, and it was,

[00:45:00] it was so bad that I thought why I don’t ever want to subject myself to that.

I mean, I literally was. Like an insane hysterical person and it hadn’t been walked off with. I found it, but just that feeling. So

Emily: there was

Kathy: that, but I also, I also had a, I’ve gotten really attached to a, another guitar and. And, the other, the beloved 62 was in an accident and the net cracked it didn’t crack like off, but it, it cracked a little and it’s, I feel like it’s not, staying in tune as much.

So which breaks my heart. But what are you going to do?

Emily: I would hope that would be fixable.

Kathy: I don’t know what else to attribute it to. I’ve taken it to every person in town. And said this guitar, you know, I could take that whammy bar and just like all over the place and it would still be in tune. And now it’s like, I can’t even play a few chords and it feels like it’s out.

So I’ll keep trying, I’ll keep taking it places that makes me sad

Andrew M.: if you’re listening to this and you’re a master luthier

Emily: paging, Mike Adams,

Andrew M.: Mike Adams would be a good guy for that. He loves fender so much. And he’s a phenomenal tech while

Kathy: this guitar is, is spectacular. And, you know, it would be, I would definitely still play it at gigs where like I’m in town and stuff, but, yeah, the tuning just doesn’t seem to be working for me anymore.

Andrew M.: All that is heartbreaking to hear.

Kathy: Yeah. That’s okay. I have a super cool, custom shop, 70. I think 70 issue re-issue Oh, that’s really good. I liked that one. It was given to me by Craig Ross who plays with Lenny Kravitz. As a thank you because I introduced those two and it’s been, Craig’s like longterm gig for others, come and go.

But Craig is always at Lenny side. And, and so I got. Guitars from both of them is thank you. And they’re like two of my greatest try not to be named droppy, but I’m super proud. Cause I I’m a matchmaker. If I could get paid for being a matchmaker, I think that I would have such a great career. Like I just knew, I knew that that was the guitar player for Lenny and I went, I like went to bat so hard to, to, to match them up.

Andrew M.: Absolutely nothing wrong with name dropping. I mean, these people are your friends.

Kathy: Yeah. I know

Emily: it didn’t feel named droppy. I feel like there’s like a way to, to talk about other celebrities that feels name droppy, but I didn’t get that vibe.

Kathy: Yeah. And it’s like, you know, it’s, it’s cool. These are like little cool stories.

And I think people would be more interested in knowing about them than me keeping it a secret. Cause I’m scared of what someone thinks. So, you know, and it happened. That’s how I was in my book. You know, I was, I didn’t want to be name dropping in my book either, but you know, things happened and they were interesting.

So yeah. Names were dropped.

Emily: Yes. They gotta be dropped, dropped some names, drop them like they had, Let’s see, I have a couple more, more questions. I do want to go back to something you were talking about. When we were talking about vulnerability, there was a line in your book that I both understood. very viscerally and it also made me sad.

But, it was after you asked your dad for money to help with, buying some musical equipment. And he said, no. And you had that line feeling hurt, doesn’t help anything. And like on one hand, I, I mean, you can say that’s true. You can say that if you, you gotta take that feeling and then transform it into something productive because to dwell on it really doesn’t help, but feelings don’t go away.

If you ignore them. And, which is just therapy one-on-one I think. Yeah. And, I, but I feel like a lot of, a lot of people in music in general have felt that at different parts and for different reasons, but w. Do you still feel that way? Do you still think that feeling hurt doesn’t help anything?

Kathy: No.

No. I mean, that happened when I was 16 and, my whole way of, of coping my, my feeling as a young person was that I, my job was to take care of myself. Nobody was going to do that. My dad wasn’t in my life, my mom was overwhelmed and wasn’t equipped to be a parent. So my job was to take care of myself.

I was, I was working, I was earning money by the time I was 10 years old to buy toys. I mean, that was my job as far as I was concerned. And I just feelings got in the way of surviving for me. And my, the way I compensated for needing to, to keep going and to survive [00:50:00] was to anything that, that kind of interfered with that got shoved aside or stepped down.

But no, I’ve, I’ve not been like that for a very long time. I just, when I wrote, I would try to really write from that place. I was writing about like, you know, that 16 year I wanted to get those feelings across, but I also had the advantage of being able to offer a reflection and insight of the present and being older now.

So, so no, but, many times through my, my time as a teenager, adolescent young adult, the feelings were just something that did not. Keep me surviving and going forward. And that’s just how I, that was my coping and how I, how I move forward. And, but no, not anymore. I I’m, I, I would, I’m sober 30 years.

I would die if I didn’t acknowledge my feelings, I don’t have anything to, I don’t have any. And I also think, I think that we tend to do what serves us, you know, until it doesn’t work anymore. And so everybody. Everybody does what they need to do to feel comfortable in their skin. And sometimes it’s healthy and sometimes it’s not healthy, but it’s serving a purpose, whatever we turn to.

And speaking of cats and minus sticking his button my face right now. So, so yeah, when it stopped serving us, sometimes we move onto something a more healthy way. Of feeling comfortable in our skin. And sometimes we just move on to another addiction or another escape. And that’s part of the journey of being a human is part of our journey is like, and hopefully we learn how to replace our coping and our, and what makes us comfortable.

Cause being Heelan is pretty darn uncomfortable. I always say animals are a lot better at being animals than we are at being people

Emily: that’s cause we just try to stop being animals.

Kathy: Exactly. So I hope I answered that well and you know, I was, I was determined, you know, I, I thought I’ve never asked my dad for anything.

So maybe he’ll help me with this. And he, you know, he was just trying to be who he was hitting his book, nobody made, he said, and he said, girls, don’t do this. You need to go to college. And I’m like, you’ve never been in my life. And I’ve asked you for one thing and you turned me down. So I, I was having an attitude, but in a way, he was just trying to be, you know, a normal dad.

Yeah, so, so all good. It just didn’t stop me. Nothing stopped me. I just got a job, like I had always done and saved my money. Yeah,

Emily: that’s true. It does nothing stopped. You you, I still can’t. I was shocked when I read that first. One of the, I think it was one of the first lines or like from the bio that talked about how.

the Go-Go’s were the first band of all women who wrote their own songs and play their own instruments to have a number one album. And they were also to date the last I was flabbergasted. I, I can thinking of all of the, the great women musicians out there, but yeah,

Kathy: there’s a lot of great musicians and there’s a lot of, a lot of bands, but.

In terms of like, you have to stick together for long enough. and your, you have to be in the timing has to be something. And it depends what, what your thing is. It’s like, You know, some bands aren’t trying to have commercial success. You know, if that’s your deal, if you want to have commercial success, then you’ve got, you know, you’ve got to look at your songs.

Cause it doesn’t matter if the club sold out, you know, and you’ve got a writeup in your local paper. If you don’t have the songs that are going to take you to a mass audience, then that’s going to be the deal, which is a great deal. But I just haven’t, I think there haven’t been that many. Female bands that maybe that was their goal to be, to be commercially internationally successful because the bands were at the Bengals where the Gogos were and then some really good bands have come along.

but you know, maybe just in terms of, of kind of having that timing, it’s all, so much of it is luck and timing.

Emily: Yeah. And they’re also, there are so many more mixed gender bands I could think of who have come close to success. I

Kathy: think like who

Emily: like, Oh gosh, I had a list the other day in my brain that was making it.

Kathy: yeah, it’s hard when I, when I get asked flat out, I get, I get it’s like, when you were saying, What did you, what have you been doing? It’s like, my mind goes blank. It’s like, what are you listening to? And I’m like, nothing. No, it’s not true. But of course I’m listening to something, but like my mind just blanked out.

Emily: Yeah. I was like, it’s like, it’s one thing when I’m laying in bed and canceling and I’m like, well, let me [00:55:00] make a list of something in my brain. And then it just gone.

Kathy: Oh, you guys want to talk? Do you want to talk about gear? Oh yeah.

Emily: Let’s talk about your gear,

Kathy: right? You guys I’m so I’m like I said before, I’m super old school.

I had a, I just got my first pedal board, like five years ago, my first one ever. And, it’s, it’s hard because I’m a left handed guitar player that plays right-handed, but it also means I’m a left footed pedal Stomper. Mm, but only I I’ve, I’ve managed to train my right foot to stomp on pedals, but I can’t do a Wawa pedal with my right.

I have to do it with my left. So my pedalboard was very challenging because they, I had my pedals. For the, on the board for the right. And then I had a cable that ran across to the other side of the, Mike Stan for my wallet pedal. cause I didn’t want a big, long thing in front of me with a big empty space, you know, and all I, all I use is, drive a tube, screamer, a tuner.

And a delay. That’s all I have on the right for my right foot. And then the Wawa, which I use a lot. So, I ha I just like, finally, I’ve got a pedal board. Somebody figured out how to do it, where it could be split apart. and I was, I was like, Oh, why didn’t I do this? It’s so much what was wrong with me?

And, and then I started showing up to gigs and it’s so funny. I kept thinking. Like there was something wrong. Like I, I borrowed my other guitar players and for one gig, I’m like, there’s something wrong with your aunt, but it’s losing volumes sucks. And we go to a club and I’d be on my app. It’s like, there’s something wrong with your electricity, man.

It took me like six gigs to realize that I had a short in my pedal board. So. Yeah, I like, cause I kept thinking of, you know, cause I wasn’t used to it and, and I hadn’t been using it for that long. So I’m just like the electricity in the club. And

Emily: sometimes it is the electricity in the

Kathy: club. Exactly. I mean, I’ve had everything happen.

Like I’ve played so many freaking gigs in my life that there’s nothing that hasn’t happened. So, At the last gig, I just very quickly had to deconstruct my pedal board and I haven’t put it back together. So now I’m back where I started. But. That’s that’s my big gear story and it’s probably really disappointing, but I I’ve been messing around with it.

do you guys know who Jackie Vinson is? She’s a guitar player here in Austin. She’s really great. Check her out. She’s so good. And, she, we were talking cause she does everything by herself, her and her robots. She calls it and she turned me on to a cooler thing pedals, but it’s called an infinity.

And I’ve been messing around with that a lot. Just still trying to sort out how I’m going to do something on my own. Cause I’ve always been in a band, but when I go out and. And do stuff. I want to incorporate storytelling talking about my life playing songs, and I don’t want to just be sitting there with an acoustic guitar at the same time.

I don’t want to do, I don’t want to just sit there with a looping pedal either. I just want it to be kind of a like variation and what fits the song I always want to do what fits the song. And I think that’s important with our sounds, our veer, our pedals, Our instrument, what we, the notes, which is to me, it’s always about the song.

What serves the song, what makes the song shine? And that’s kind of been like my operational mode for my entire career. I

Emily: do feel like there’s something that, that gets lost a lot with, the idea of a lot of players. They want to have these enormous pedal boards that like, I just wouldn’t want to lug around because of the size.

Like a pedal five of the pedals you use once in the set or, yeah, it’s really cool to have a puddle that does a very weird thing, but does it serve the song? Like I have pedals that I love and I try to use them to sneak them into a gig and my singer I’ll turn around after a gig and be like, I didn’t like that.

I was like, all right, I’ll take it off the board, but some, and then sometimes she’ll be like, I

Kathy: really,

Emily: really love that. And that. That makes the experimentation worth it.

Kathy: Yeah. And I figured people that had a lot of pedals in the big pedalboard. I always figured that’s what they were using it for, was to serve the song, like the song, this one song, the chorus really needs to have this open swirly sound or something.

And I could see that. I just, I just, I’ve never been gone there or needed that much variation, but, I that’s what I assumed, but I’m sure just like anything there’s players that just want to, you know, Kind of play. They’re just [01:00:00] playing around with sounds, which it can be great for a song where they can also distract from the song.

So I just think that should always determine where, where you use and where you don’t use. And I use that for writing my book too, having that. Having that lifetime of experience, where it’s really all about what you leave in and what you take out, that’s art, you know, that’s what makes you, the artists you are.

And that’s true for sounds true for notes. True for lyrics chords, you know, do I really need that cord there? It shows what a, what a awesome chord player, how many chords I know and it, but is it enhancing? So I like to be efficient. I really keep things. I mean, I don’t know. So it helped for writing the book because so much of the book was like, what do I leave in?

What do I take out?

Emily: Yeah. It felt like a concise read and in a good way. I mean, it didn’t seem like there was lot of superfluous stuff in there at all. I, I can’t recommend the book highly enough, like. To anyone who’s listening. Do the audio book. I recommend the audio book. It was really great.

Kathy: Now

Andrew M.: I do have a, I do have a followup question to the book is towards the end, you talked a little bit more about some spiritual experiences and it, you left it fairly vague in the book, and open to some interpretation that, being a spiritual guy myself, I wanted to ask a little bit more, if you had anything further to add on top of that, what that journey has looked like since 1990.

Kathy: Well, for me, I was raised without religion in my life and my family. well, I should say my mom. And then as later as I started having a relationship with my dad, their academics and, I was kind of just left to figure it out for myself. And, and as a mom, now it comes up often. But I think for me, spirituality is really about, compassion and, getting outside of myself service.

I will, I’m a big believer in action. and what you, what you say and do is way more important than what you. I mean, what you actually do, you know, is more important than what you think. I think that you can, humility. I just think there’s cornerstones. It’s really what I wrote in my book are the same things, humility, compassion and caring about other people and being of service whenever possible are the cornerstones of my spirituality.

And. You know, the thing I struggle with the most that I need the most is making time out every day for it to get quiet and whatever my concept or anyone’s concept of God is, is to just quiet my mind to have that connection with a higher power or God, or. Away from the chatter of the mind, which is usually centered in ego and fear and, you know, anxiety and stuff.

So that’s kind of, it it’s very nebulous, but it works for me. I don’t need organized religion to follow a path of spirituality.

Emily: Yeah.

Kathy: I like that.

Andrew M.: I really appreciate you sharing that.

Kathy: But I also understand Oregon. I understand wanting to, to be a part of something, you know, I do. I’m not saying that that’s just not right.

I just want to be clear. Like I don’t, I don’t think, yeah, I don’t have anything against, people that find those same things in a, in a, within an organization.

Andrew M.: No. I, I definitely agree with what you say about how, what you do matters so much more than what you say. And I would even go as far as to take it as, what you do often belies whether or not you believe what you

Kathy: say exactly.

Andrew M.: And the values that you share, the same values that I pull from my religious context. And I, whereas this is a gear podcast. I know I’m a little off topic here. I do think it’s very important part of your story, right? At the end, there is you’re really kind of processing and coming out of that stage of your life.

And I found that part to be very profound and I really appreciated that.

Kathy: Yeah, thank you very much. I thought it was, it was key to the story and, and also, you know, it illustrated how. The protagonist of the story, who is me, comes out a very changed person, you know? Cause that’s what, that’s what classic storytelling is.

You, you have a main character in a memoir, it’s the writer and you start out one way, you end up very different and you go through a loss and hardship and obstacles and that’s the journey. So good. I’m glad I did. Do that and the spiritual awakening was the big, the big change for me.

Emily: That’s [01:05:00] awesome. Andrew, did you have any questions, other questions or things you wanted to talk about, from the book or just in general?

Andrew M.: I could, I could go on, I think that one of the, I think I’ll leave it with just stating a, an appreciation for, and I’ve been saying a lot of things, like I really appreciate, but the book was so really well done that it left me with just not a whole lot of, appreciative thoughts. but something that we talk about on the show semi frequently is mental health.

And. And I really, I think you did a really great job of portraying what your journey with that has been, I think is one of like the subplot lines is. What your journey was with mental health from an early age and

Emily: self care to

Andrew M.: the self care, the processing of trauma, the recognition that it’s okay to not be okay.

those sorts of things, as they cropped up the story, I just found myself going. Yes. Yes. Yes. And I’m always going to be a fan of anybody in anything that is able to talk about mental health in a. A positive way in a way that I think, I think it’s really helpful for other people to hear as well.

Emily: Yeah.

Other people who are going through things like that, it’s always, it’s, it’s the same reason representation and saying Suzi, Quatro, or any other woman like Wendy Melvoin or someone live for the first time and be like, Oh, Oh shit. I can do that. I feel like it’s the same thing with like, hearing about people’s.

Well, self care mental health, the things that they’ve been through sobriety journeys to know that you’re not, you’re not alone in this world.

Kathy: Yeah, I agree. I really, I think that’s why it’s important that people are willing to share their stories and. I see it all the time. I see, you know, even on social media, I’ll see somebody just kind of open up and say, Hey, I’ve been going through this and how just so many responses that they’ll get from people saying like, Oh, thank you so much for sharing that.

It’s so it’s just, especially now more than ever to feel a human connection. Is essential for our survival, because I don’t know how we will go forward as, as a society or as a species, if we don’t start to think about that human connection rather than what’s good for me. What’s good for me. Yeah.

Andrew M.: Well, it’s been really good to connect with you.

Human to human.

Emily: Haven’t taken Peter to

Kathy: human.

Andrew M.: We could just ignore the computer part of it.

Emily: That’s what they want you to do, Andrew.

Kathy: Are you

Andrew M.: trying to tell me that birds aren’t real.

Emily: Cathy, are you aware of that weird meme? That, birds aren’t real. Cause I think I’m a little too, too old for it, but Andrew seems to be right in it.

Kathy: I’m surprised. I haven’t cause no, I don’t know. The birds aren’t real mean, but I’d like, I’m very curious now

Emily: I need you. I need you to explain it.

Andrew M.: Alright. Alright. So strap yourself in. This is, this is going to be an interesting one that I was

Emily: near tinfoil ready?

Andrew M.: so when the, pandemic started hitting people.

When presented with tough life decisions or situations often find ways of explaining things in fantastical ways. And other people also like to explain things in fantastical ways and an effort to poke a little bit of fun at. The people who legitimately mean, so, and where this falls on that spectrum, I’m not really sure, but there’s a little bit of it

Emily: or is it real

Andrew M.: right?

Like, wait, does they actually do, they don’t actually

Emily: find the birds. Explain the birds, the birds,

Andrew M.: the birds, the birds, the birds. there’s. A group of folks in the internet who started trying to spout out the will, were all in mandatory quarantine and locked down because the government is trying to change the batteries and the birds, because birds are real, they’re sort of Dailene’s tools, any mention of birds in the history books.

That’s been fabricated now that the technology is available and they’re typically solar rechargeable, but now that Elon Musk has created better batteries than they need to swap them out for longevity.

Kathy: Wow. That’s I almost like, like this one, it says out there it is so out there and, you know, wow. It’s just mind boggling what people can actually think really is.

Wow.

Emily: I hope it’s parody. I think it’s, I think most people. No how dumb it is, but

Kathy: there’s people that believe it. There has to be,

Emily: there’s not flat earth house in Denton, Texas.

Kathy: I know. I love the guy that like, because he thought the earth was flat. Like he went up in his like weird little. [01:10:00] And I like it crashed because it wasn’t flat.

Emily: Yeah. That’s a contender for Darwin awards. I think.

Kathy: Absolutely.

Andrew M.: Yeah. My running joke that I’ve been sharing with as the quarantine has gone on much longer than expected as like, well guys, the government’s trying to change, like sure. If we had a private institution do this, it might’ve taken two weeks, but it’s the government they’re incredibly inefficient.

Of course they needed to extend the deadline to change the batteries and the birds.

Emily: Amazing, over time and over budget. is there anything else Kathy, that you wanna, you want to give a shout out about or mention? cause we want to be respectful of your time.

Kathy: yeah, I’ll, I, I should probably jump off pretty soon, but I, I would say that, you know, if you’re interested in getting the book, please try, indie bookstores before.

I mean, nothing against Amazon, but they’re not hurting. Indie bookstores are. And a lot of them have signed. Kathy Valentine books and they will happily ship to you. So even if there’s not one in your local town, there’s, there’s bookstores all over the country. And my social media on Facebook, Instagram I’m Cathy dot Ballantine, Twitter.

I’m Kathy underscore Valentine, and I’m always trying to put out info of. stores that are struggling, that are offering books. So I wouldn’t say that and then check out the music. And, I like to engage with people. I like hearing from people and I do all my own stuff. And, that’s about it. I love talking to you both.

It was really, really cool. I, I feel a little bad that I didn’t have more gear to like, Blab about, but. It’s

Emily: no, it was plenty of gear for like, we started as a guitar gear podcasts, and really quickly pivoted people talking about gear all the time.

Kathy: Yeah. Well, I’m, I’m I’m I don’t go to like the conventions or all that stuff, but I’m a, there’s a guy in town I’m going to give him a plug Durham electronics that I, I love.

And I, I also, He has this cool, crazy horse pedal. I’m going to stick that in there because that’s the one and it’s all like, it’s the crazy ours pedal that’s for that nail a young sound. And, and, so I want to plug him because that’s my go to, when I do want to try something or get something modified, or just go in and say, Hey, Hey, you know, what can I use for this?

So that’s it.

Emily: Nice well to everybody listening, check the show notes for links to Kathy’s social profiles. I’ll drop some links to the book from some independent bookstores that are meaningful to me, but check out your own as well. please take a minute to leave the podcast, a rating and review on iTunes.

It really helps us. we also have a Patrion. patrion.com/get offset for $25 a month. I will write you a song. I owe our good friend, Noah Barnett a song because he is our newest, patron at $25 a month.

Andrew M.: Woo

Emily: woo. And I gotta look up there’s somebody else who just joined and I wish them up really quickly.

Paul, thank you so much, Paul.

Andrew M.: Thank you, Paul, we appreciate you and your contributions in the show. You’re a part of what helps makes the show possible.

Emily: We have for fuck’s sake merchant available, and that seems to be shipping again. get off set podcast.com and thanks for listening. Thanks for understanding until next time.

I’m

Kathy: Emily

Andrew M.: and I’m Andrew.

Emily: Goodbye. [01:15:00] .