Episode 100: He’s Got Knobs, and He Knows How to Use Them

Episode Transcript

Note: a machine made this, so it’s not perfect, but if you’re hearing impaired and have any questions about what we said, please feel free to ask us in the comments or send us an email with the form below. 

Andrew: [00:00:00] welcome to the, get off set podcast. My name is Andrew

Emily: [00:00:16] and myname is Emily and we’re here this week for our 100th episode with Scott from the YouTube channel and blooper fame. Knobs. That was a weird way to say that. That was a weird way to say that, but

Scott: [00:00:31] I didn’t know. This was number 100. You didn’t tell me.

Emily: [00:00:34] Oh, it’s just a coincidence, but it is episode number 100. Yeah. We’ve been doing this for almost two years. Exactly. Yeah.

Andrew: [00:00:46] This is a, the hundred in what? First week we’ve done this. Cause we only skipped one week.

Emily: [00:00:51] We only skipped one week. Yeah,

Andrew: [00:00:53] that was for blackout Tuesday. So

Scott: [00:00:55] you have a favorite episode?

Emily: [00:00:59] Oh man.

I think my favorite is still the one with Louise from Dorf craft devices or Mike Adams, or, um, I really enjoy talking to, uh, Sadie Dupuis from sad13 and speedy Ortiz.

Scott: [00:01:13] Nice.

Emily: [00:01:14] I should also say that the Charly Bliss episode, I liked a lot, cause I was a big, I’m a big fan of their music.

Andrew: [00:01:21] I have a lot of favorite episodes and a lot of favorite memories, and I’m not sure where to even begin not

Emily: [00:01:28] hoopes.

Andrew: [00:01:29] Matt hoopes was definitely a highlight. Um, and it’s been phenomenal to get, to have followup conversations with him after the episode, the last couple of years, get to know each other a little bit.

Emily: [00:01:40] Yeah.

Andrew: [00:01:41] It’s been, uh, let’s see here. The Mike Adams episode was also a huge highlight for me. Um, the Louise episode, I think for a personal growth perspective by far has to be my favorite episode though.

Cause we, we talked about, um, A lot of things that I remember very clearly, the moment she had to stop me and say, Andrew, that’s not how this works. And kind of laid into me for a minute. Not like in a rude way, but like in a, I need you to understand this. And I remember just having the Oh, like that kind of click moment.

I’m like, I’m completely wrong here. This makes so much sense now why didn’t thank you for explaining it to me. And just having that moment of like, I’m being willing to say that I’m wrong.

Emily: [00:02:58] Yeah. Or even that being wrong, isn’t a purse. Like someone saying that you’re wrong, isn’t a personal attack. Is that, that, that, that you have to learn yeah. Over time and you have to train your brain to not take things personally. And that’s something that, uh, I’ve learned that training your brain is really something that, that happens.

Like when people always say like, Oh, you’re in control with how you respond to things. And that’s never really felt true for me in a lot of ways. Um, but they don’t mention people who say they don’t mention that there’s a lot of work involved in changing how you respond to things like things that go wrong.

Um, someone second guessing you, someone calling you out for being wrong and that, you know, personal growth is not something that happens overnight and that you do have to put the work in.

Scott: [00:03:46] Totally well.

Andrew: [00:03:48] I’m thankful to Louise and everyone else who’s pinned me down over the last a hundred episodes.

Emily: [00:04:14] Well, I think that you can say some people would say this position without saying I’m playing devil’s advocate.

Andrew: [00:04:19] Yeah. But then I’ve got to say that, like that qualify every statement. It’s just easier to qualify, like a chunk of the episode.

Emily: [00:04:27] It’s

Andrew: [00:04:27] like, all right, guys, I’m going to put on my mask here. And then at the end of the episode, I’m going to take it off.

That feels a little bit easier for me to manage. Sure.

Emily: [00:08:57] Yeah, she deserves it.

Andrew: [00:08:59] I think it’s pretty cool. I think, uh, uh, all of the, uh, middle-aged straight white men that are complaining about it are just upset.

Emily: [00:09:08] Why it doesn’t affect them. Like this is the thing I don’t understand. This literally doesn’t affect you at all. Just be like, Oh, okay. And then like

Andrew: [00:09:16] it does, it affects their ego.

Emily: [00:09:18] How can get the white men on the podcast this week? Please explain.

Andrew: [00:09:25] I’m going to spitball here.

Scott: [00:09:28] Okay.

Andrew: [00:09:28] Oh, I, I think it’s great. I just, just reading through some of the comments I’ve seen in forums last couple of days, it just very much seems like a gatekeeping statement of I’m a better an assertion that I’m a better musician than Billie Eilish is therefore she doesn’t deserve it because I don’t deserve one.

And the fact that she’s getting one means that I’m really terrible is kind of like the implied psychological read there.

Emily: [00:09:54] Yeah. She won’t like five Grammys.

Andrew: [00:09:57] Right?

Scott: [00:09:58] Wait till you, usually, when you get your sixth, Grammy is when you get a custom ukulele, is the thing.

Emily: [00:10:04] See, I thought it was five and I thought that six was the jacket.

Andrew: [00:10:08] Oh yeah. That’s the, uh, that’s one of the rules in the book. Massage. Annie,

Emily: [00:10:13] you get the, you get the smoking jacket or was that Saturday?

Andrew: [00:10:16] Oh, that’s on page 69.

Emily: [00:10:19] Nice.

Scott: [00:10:21] I don’t know what it is, but I feel like there’s always like a pendulum swing when any person experiences too much success where it’s like, like some, some personality type just feels compelled to like balance out the pendulum.

And, you know, obviously you don’t have to do that, but it just seems like it happens no matter what it’s like, even

Emily: [00:10:43] like with like people who used to be fans. Like, I remember when. The first time I saw Mumford and sons was Bonneroo at, um, this or that tent. I don’t remember which of them, but it wasn’t which stage.

And it wasn’t what stage and it wasn’t the other 10. So it was either this or that time. And, um, that was a stupid joke. I’m sorry, but that is literally how names their stages. Um, And yeah, it was, it was really well attended. And I remember this one guy I knew in particular, just raving about how much he loved Mumford and sons.

And now like then like three years later, like just really disliked. Someone thinks they’re boring. I’m like how, what changed? The music is the same, I guess.

Scott: [00:11:27] Well, cause other people like them as well now. And. That’s problematic.

Emily: [00:11:31] Yes. I want to be special

Andrew: [00:11:35] because they weren’t cool yet.

Emily: [00:11:37] That’d be special.

Scott: [00:11:40] I kind of have this theory that like for many people, celebrities become an extension of their ego.

Cause they only experienced them. Like. When they’re in the comfort of their aloneness. So I think like celebrities, yeah. Like they become less human and more like, um, parts of someone else’s identity. And then when that changes, it’s upsetting.

Andrew: [00:12:02] Oh, I like that. But I’m also

Emily: [00:12:05] afraid actually really profound.

And I really, really liked that. But then like how many friends have I made? Um, because we shared an interest in, well, actually that’s mostly just the hold steady. And I don’t know if the whole study wherever and super duper danger of becoming like Mumford and sons famous, but I wish that they would because they deserve it.

Yeah. So

Andrew: [00:12:25] what does that say about

Scott: [00:12:26] reasonable thing, but I think it’s part of at least what happens.

Andrew: [00:12:31] What does that say about a person? If they’re a celebrity that they’re attached to on that psychological level is Dave

Emily: [00:12:37] Grohl. Well, what’s wrong with Dave girl? Nothing. I’m

Andrew: [00:12:40] not saying it’s a bad thing. I’m just, I want to know what Scott thinks about

Scott: [00:12:43] that.

Oh man. I know very little about Dave girl, actually. Um, I watched the sound city documentary that he made. I was a

Andrew: [00:12:52] bummer.

Scott: [00:12:54] Yeah, I know. Very little. I mean, I know he was the drummer in Nirvana and then the foo fighters and stuff, but none of that music really, I never really did a deep dive into any of it.

Andrew: [00:13:04] All right. Fair enough. Fair enough. So Scott, what’s new with you?

Scott: [00:13:11] I’m pretty, I mean, I’ve been feeling, I’ve been feeling like a squirrel, um, of late. I just moved this past month and, um, it’s become really an ordeal, like moving is such a pedestrian thing to do, and everyone does it. And I think. Like even talking about it feels kind of stupid, but it’s really taken over my world.

Um, and I, I’m still living in disarray here, but that’s coming together and it’s an upgrade. Um, did my first live stream a couple of nights ago? Just fun,

Emily: [00:13:44] right? The blooper, the new, I need to go back and watch that. I just have been so swamped.

Scott: [00:13:51] It was pretty fun. We most critical thing, which was sharing the new firmware.

With the users, um, It’s funny too, like wah, that seems easy. Right. Um, but we, we had trouble with that. So there was the comments for the first like 20 minutes or just like where’s the firmware and we’re making jokes. Um, so that part was weird, but it was fun. We brought in a lot of people that were really helpful, like the beta testing team, you know, things that people don’t consider a lot, but are big parts of these projects.

Um,

Emily: [00:14:23] beta testing is no joke. It’s a, it’s a pain in the ass to be honest. Like it’s, it’s hard. It’s

Scott: [00:14:29] work don’t I don’t think, um, yeah, you know, actually one of our beta testers, Paul who’s also like the middy specialist for chase bliss. Um, he said this thing one time, I’ll never forget about how kind of thankless it is, because if you don’t find any problems, um, you feel like you’re not doing a good enough job as a beta tester.

And then if you do find problems, Nobody likes you,

Emily: [00:14:53] you know, you just feel like an asshole. Yeah.

Scott: [00:14:56] You’re the bearer of bad news. And we had lots of problems with bloopers. So, you know, it is a, I’m sure it’s a very conflicting thing. To be a beta tester.

Andrew: [00:15:06] That’s got to have like some sort of like Pavlovian responsibility and be like, Hey guys, I found a problem.

Scott: [00:15:14] Yeah. Thanks Paul.

Andrew: [00:15:17] You cringe and jump back. And now you’re extra hesitant to announce the next problem you find and rinse and repeat

Scott: [00:15:24] until you weren’t hesitant, Andrew. Not one bit

Emily: [00:15:28] no, and they shouldn’t be because that’s literally their job. But like, I think about video game testers and like their thing is sometimes they just have to like, do like run up against a wall 15 times, slightly in slightly different ways to make sure they don’t like, there’s not a bug that allows him to like break through that wall.

I’m like, that sounds so monotonous.

Scott: [00:15:48] It is monotonous. And, um, one thing we do talk about on that stream is we had this one bug with blooper where, you know, ultimately it’s a digital pedal, so it’s ones and zeros. And, um, there was this thing that would happen where there would be a, uh, one sample would progress, um, ahead of the other.

So there’s like a record head and a play head. And if one, if those de became disconnected by one sample, The most horrible sound you could imagine just like wall of digital modem noise would happen. Um, that’s 10 times louder. It’s basically like I’m limited. So it’s as loud as, as possible what happened and it was happening all throughout development.

And so like testing blooper was actually really, really horrifying the kind of noise where like you, your, your, um, your nervous system reacts to it. You know what I mean?

Emily: [00:16:40] Yeah.

Scott: [00:16:41] And that would happen without warning the whole time, but not only what had happened, it happened to me or someone else and be like, Oh no, you have to like, make that better.

And then I would not touch the pedal for awhile, but the beta team would have to figure out why. And, and repeat it again. And again.

Emily: [00:16:58] Is that so key is re repeatability is so key for any error. Like your fear is that something goes wrong and you can’t replicate it because then like, how do you figure out what went wrong?

Scott: [00:17:08] Yeah, exactly. It has to be a hundred percent repeatable or there’s nothing we can do about it.

Andrew: [00:17:13] Right. But that sounds like a terrifying, like auditory Jack in the box for just out of the blue, like full dial up noises, just attacking your senses.

Emily: [00:17:22] Some people pay for that, you know?

Scott: [00:17:26] Well, I can, I can give them the firmware that would do it for blueprint.

Andrew: [00:17:30] Look, I don’t kink shame here.

Emily: [00:17:32] No, absolutely not. I mean, I own a mini, a TKO tree of any glitch for a while and I, the kaolin SanDisk man. Which with it’s weird, like anti-skid, uh, Sony disc man capabilities. Like those, like, that’s one of my favorite pedals, but like full mode and noises. I feel like that would just like send me back to a bad place for my childhood.

Andrew: [00:17:53] I feel like I’d have to wear diapers if I was beta testing. That just, just in case

Emily: [00:17:58] you were a baby, when the internet started

Andrew: [00:18:01] no more, more like I would, I would myself, if it just hit me like 120 decibels,

Scott: [00:18:08] It’s really scary.

Emily: [00:18:09] Have you timeline footnote, Andrew?

Scott: [00:18:14] You’ve probably used ’em feedback loopers before, right?

Sure.

Emily: [00:18:19] I haven’t

Scott: [00:18:20] actually they, um, I mean death by audio, just put one out there. There are some options. And what they do is, you know, like a, how it delays a feedback loop to create repeats. Um, you can apply that to any effect. There’s always like a critical, uh, turnover point where if you turn the feedback up too high, it will sell fossil weight.

Right, which is kind of another, uh, horrifying noise.

Emily: [00:18:46] If you’re not intending for it to happen,

Scott: [00:18:48] you’re not. And the thing is with, with feedback loopers often the, um, the moment that is most interesting is like right beside the moment where it becomes truly horrifying. Um, so yeah, that’s another way to experience sheer terror through a guitar pedal.

If you want feedback, loopers.

Emily: [00:19:07] Nice. Well, a dog man devices has a feedback loop are called the aura Boris, and he has a sale. So I’m kind of thinking about. Getting one of those that could be fun.

Scott: [00:19:17] They’re fun. And you never know what you get. Right. Cause you’re, you’re I, the way I think of them as hacking another pedal, cause on their own, they don’t really do anything.

Um, but they allow you to, they, what they do is just feed the output of any pedal back into its input again and again and again. So depending on what that is, cool, things can happen. And

Emily: [00:19:36] actually, I, I, I’m sorry, I do have two pedals that have that I have the multi-county by bookworm effects and the, um, Meet mod, I think has that, but I’ve never just played with a feedback loop or on its own, but I’m actually shoot.

I’m such a liar. I have the, um, the Klein bottle. In fact, I have the knobs version of the Klein bottle. Yeah. Wow. What am I thinking of? Wow. Why

Andrew: [00:20:00] am I license? I haven’t had a dedicated one, but I’ve, uh, I remember accidentally discovering that I was able to do it by botching my ramp set up to accidentally feed back into self again.

And that was cause I was trying to ramp a dry signal through my pedal board and I was experimenting with that. And I was like, wait, when I turn up the gain over like a certain level, suddenly the signal starts to break itself and it’s amazing what’s going on? I don’t know. Wonderful. Oh yeah. I I’ve had some really fun late night zone out of my mind kind of experiences doing that.

But to take a quick step back, you were talking about moving and just want you to know that I sympathize with that. My dad was military. We moved, uh, more than your average bear growing up and I’m, I think this is the first year I haven’t moved in the last decade. Oh

Scott: [00:20:55] man.

Andrew: [00:20:56] Um, cause into my adult life, their college and whatnot, it was just at least once a year, different apartment, different, different room in someone’s house and back and forth all over the place.

Scott: [00:21:06] Totally. I’m just definitely at like grownup level belongings now. I think that’s really the difference. Cause yeah, pretty similar. I’m moving. It’s definitely a, an annual or biannual tradition, but I’m a big boy now. It’s hard.

Emily: [00:21:25] Yeah, I don’t like moving and I don’t plan on doing it for a while. I just, we, we bought a townhouse a few years ago, so I’m hoping that I don’t have to. Um, but, um, Andrew, what’s new with you. We haven’t gotten to you and we’re 22 minutes in, so we better,

Andrew: [00:21:40] I know. Um, Well, I think the one thing that’s newest with me is, uh, a project that I’m staring at right now is I got a couple of sliver jacks from sinusoid yesterday, and I’m going to attempt to DIY solder them to finally get the PN to use old name on my

Emily: [00:22:01] board.

Hi Allie.

Andrew: [00:22:04] I know. So, cause I. The I built the board planning to replace an expression pedal with the P and T at some point. So underneath all of the clean wiring, I still have the Iran, the nine volt power, um, lead to that spot. And it’s just not plugged into anything right now. It’s just hiding under the expression pedal, waiting for the day that I can do this, but I only had to SB 400 jacks and I need a total Ford wired up in stereo, out of the end of my avalanche run.

Right. But then I realized that SB 400 Jackson, the side of the PN to have to go in like this really awkward, like right. Angle of each other kind of scenario, because they don’t fit side-by-side. Right. Which is kind of the point of SB 400 square jacks. Um, so I was like, well,

Emily: [00:22:46] yeah, those work better on top mounted things than side mounted.

Andrew: [00:22:50] Sure. And so I was looking at going, well, I could. I don’t know, I could just do get a couple more SB, four hundreds, and just that way, every single Jack on the board matches that’s life got two pancakes. So it’d be mostly sq 400, but. I decided to go for the slivers, make it a little bit cleaner just for that one connection.

And to give me a little bit of a soldering challenge, but

Emily: [00:23:14] I have never cussed more in my life and regretted trying to ever solder anything. Then when I was trying to get those slivers

Andrew: [00:23:20] and that’s what I’ve been told,

Emily: [00:23:22] I don’t know. I am actually shocked. They still sell them because I know that back two years ago, when I was trying to do them, they were like, Oh yeah.

People tend to just like us to make. Cause it’s a great product. I think people just prefer to have them make it because you need a vice unit, extremely hot soldering iron. And if you don’t get it right, you’re going to get real mad.

Andrew: [00:23:40] Yeah. So Alby was the one that he actually delivered to my front door.

Cause he also had her turn, my Dunlop mini from the Fox Cairo Squatch pedalboard, um, collaboration that we did a couple weeks ago. And he had borrowed my, my pedal to do a photo shoot with a pedal topper and uh, So he’s returning that and he brought these back and it was like, all right. So any advice and he’s like call James, if you have any problems and

Emily: [00:24:06] maybe yeah.

Maybe we’ll do it. Is that the one who knows them? All right. Oh, well, yeah, I remember it was Anthony who, uh, actually had James, um, take a video, showing how they do them. And then I was like, this is still, I think my soldering iron wasn’t getting hot enough. So now I have a better soldering iron and a bunch of leftover sliver.

Parts, maybe I’ll give it another go. But

Scott: [00:24:29] yeah, I was

Andrew: [00:24:30] born to do it sober. I was warned to not

Emily: [00:24:34] be stressed. Are sober. Are you, uh, are you was Brown with you?

Andrew: [00:24:38] Never. I’m not saying that that’s something that I do and I look, I haven’t had a drink in four weeks. I’m on doctor ordered sobriety right now.

Emily: [00:24:48] Not for reasons people might think it’s for medication.

Just not that there’s anything wrong with sobriety in any way. And if, if you need help getting sober, uh, there’s lots of great resources and I would be happy to help

Andrew: [00:25:03] health has to come first. I’m prioritizing my health and I think that’s very positive thing. Yeah. Um, but no, it’s not why that was brought.

It was just the, he was running through the, he was basically warning me. This is, this is going to be an interesting experience. But once you get the hang of it, apparently it gets lot easier. Well,

Emily: [00:25:21] that’s like anything. Sure.

Scott: [00:25:23] And I do think not enough people like, well, like anything, when you start, you get the cheapest thing possible, but I would.

I would suggest you always buy the $100 soldering iron to start with the adjustable temperature. Cause otherwise they’ll just hate soldering and you won’t understand why you hate it so much.

Emily: [00:25:41] I would say my first soldering workstation was like the kind of beginner kid and I was very glad I had it. And then my next soldering, like I got a little portable one, um, because this synth shop in Seattle would do like this weekly solder, like our biweekly soldering night.

So I wanted something portable to take there. And it was, it actually ended up being a better solder in iron, but still I have my new Weller got that the other year. And I’ve never looked back though. I have ruined a couple of the tips because I’m dumb.

Andrew: [00:26:12] I am not going to lie. I picked my soldering iron station for one reason.

It’s orange. It’s orange.

Emily: [00:26:22] Well, all I know

Scott: [00:26:24] any soldering project I did, um, before I had like a, you know, one where you could set the temperature, went poorly in some way, shape or form. And, uh, I just thought it was bad soldering or soldering was super hard. And then as soon as I got like a proper iron things just made so much more sense and the things worked when I was done.

Emily: [00:26:44] Yeah. It took me a while to realize that like, This is not working. Not because I’m bad at soldering, but because my soldering tip is dead sometimes.

Scott: [00:26:52] Yeah. And the idea of it being hotter as a beginner sounds like, Oh, that’s, it’s easier to make mistakes, but it’s really the opposite. It makes things fast.

And you don’t like linger on each joint too long.

Emily: [00:27:04] Yeah, my friend, um, Leon from Pelican Noiseworks, he was the one who told me like a lot of heat for a small amount of time is better than less heat for a longer amount of time. For things like ice chips and pots things. I can get fried that you fry them because you’re working at too low of a temperature.

Totally. Yeah. So you’re lingering and that’s bad.

Scott: [00:27:26] Lingering is bad

Emily: [00:27:28] as bad. Anything else new with you, Andrew?

Andrew: [00:27:31] Um, that’s, that’s honestly been the, the big one. I know I’m missing something. Um, I mean, I’ve just been doing some general housekeeping and, uh, preparing for my next Fox Cairo product launch, but not ready to launch quite yet, probably in the next week or two.

We’ll talk more about it after I, uh, announced it publicly.

Emily: [00:27:53] Cool. Well, let’s get into sponsors, Andrew, which sponsor do you want to talk about?

Andrew: [00:27:58] You know, which one I want to take right now?

Emily: [00:28:00] I know exactly which one go for it.

Andrew: [00:28:02] This week’s episode is brought to you by Earthquaker devices as a listeners of the show know, by now that’s always been my favorite brand and yeah, I’m, I’m very excited to have them as a sponsor this week.

Scott: [00:28:21] What’s your favorite one?

Andrew: [00:28:23] Uh,

Scott: [00:28:24] juice.

Andrew: [00:28:27] Favorite one. For personal reasons is my avalanche run V one. That’s got AI, um, some personalized toodling inside for me.

Emily: [00:28:39] Oh yeah. A penis finger monster.

Andrew: [00:28:42] Yeah. It’s the Dick titty titty monster is I think exactly how it was phrased when I asked for the explanation for what it was.

Scott: [00:28:51] Um, paints a picture.

Andrew: [00:28:53] I can see there’s a picture somewhere on, on the, if you scroll far enough through the, get off site Instagram, there’s a picture of the artwork for that. Uh, for personal reasons. I actually love it. It’s personalized. It’s got my name in it, uh, for space out reasons. Gotta say. My dad had corrupt.

Corrupter is just one of the coolest things I’ve ever had in my collection. And I love playing it on base. I’ll just sit down and just mess with it for an hour and feels like five minutes. It’s just incorrect.

Scott: [00:29:24] Thanks

Andrew: [00:29:26] so much. Those are my two personal favorites. However, something that you should really seriously consider getting that’s the newest iteration of the afternoon is the fee three.

Emily: [00:29:35] Yeah, can I, can I talk a little bit about, about the afternoon? Cause I do have a story from this week about the afternoon.

Andrew: [00:29:40] Tell me your story. I want to hear it.

Emily: [00:29:42] So my, my singer for my band Sunday crush, uh, she was, uh, doing a, a pickup from the Seattle gear swap and then the guy who, uh, she got. The thing, like it was like a piano or something, a keyboard.

Uh, he also gave her like the big boy pedal train pedalboard and she has two pedals. She has a fuzz pedal, and then she, uh, has been borrowing for like a year now. Um, one of my old blood noise endeavors pedals, and I of course bestowed upon her a bunch of stuff to try out. And one of them was the afternoon and she was doing with our, uh, basis, Isaac, this, uh, stream where she goes through the pedals, building her first pedal board, like kind of on a live stream type deal.

And, uh, I was watching and she asked me, she’s like, what’s the afternoon. And I was just like, uh, it’s spooky. It’s a spooky pedal. And, uh, I, I think that’s the best way to describe it. It is like, it really is an other worldly type of reverb. And the V3 has a feature that people have been asking a lot for, um, something to control the drag.

So now there’s like this little mode control on the drag that, um, kinda changes the individual delay lines. So there’s, um, And quantize on quantize with SLU on quantized, bolt, octave, chromatic scale, major scale, minor scale, pentatonic, octave synthesis, octaves. And that controls the way that the drag control functions, especially when you’re using like an expression pedal.

So that’s like this, like apparently some people have been asking for this for forever and they finally did it. And I didn’t just like. It’s really neat. I’m a big fan.

Andrew: [00:31:34] So what I just heard is when I told my physics teacher in high school that I’d never used quantum physics in real life. Now I’m using it as a hobby.

I think that’s my takeaway. Uh,

Emily: [00:31:45] sure. Let’s just, I’m just,

Andrew: [00:31:47] yeah, man. Just like the sound of like quantum physics in a reverb pedal,

Emily: [00:31:51] bro. That’s a really cool spooky pedal. Reverb’s

Andrew: [00:31:56] gonna listen to this right. Earthquaker is going to listen to this and I’m like, man, why did we sponsor these guys? This is dumb.

Emily: [00:32:03] Yeah. Yeah. They might sorry, Anna. NTRs

Andrew: [00:32:08] seriously, go, go, go check out, go get one today. There’s really no

Emily: [00:32:13] excuse.

Andrew: [00:32:14] It’s orange

Emily: [00:32:15] outside. I have a demo up, I’ll put it in the show notes and I’ll put a link where you can buy this on reverb.com. If you buy it on reverb, right? You do help us out if you buy it via our affiliate link.

So things to consider, speaking of things, to consider our other sponsor this week is distro kid. Have you made some super spooky music with your afternoon and you want to put it out there for the world to hear this your kid. S E a,

Andrew: [00:32:42] do we have a Thurman button? I feel like we’ve got to have a thorough, nah, man.

Emily: [00:32:46] Yeah, no. Um, we don’t, but, uh, it’s only 19 about 1999 a year to have a district kid account. You get your music on Spotify title. You get that Spotify verified check Mark automatically. It’s super easy to upload stuff. Check out my video, uh, showing, explaining how to. Upload things to, um, distro kid, uh, check the link in this, uh, podcast description, show notes, whatever, uh, there’s link there.

It’ll save you 7% on your first year of distro kid.

Andrew: [00:33:23] 7%.

Emily: [00:33:24] Heck yeah. Not free, like discounts or discounts, you know,

Andrew: [00:33:28] it’s a nice round number. I like 7%.

Emily: [00:33:31] Yeah, that sounds actually my favorite number.

Andrew: [00:33:34] Seven is just like a Holy Christian number. So

Emily: [00:33:38] yes,

Andrew: [00:33:38] I’m obligated to like it as such. It’s a

Emily: [00:33:41] prime number. I like prime numbers

Andrew: [00:33:44] optimist.

Emily: [00:33:46] Sure. Fine enough with dad jokes. Good God,

Andrew: [00:33:50] that

Emily: [00:33:52] transformers are always good. We’re sorry for comic where you get what I’m sure. They’d appreciate it. Whatever. That’s

Andrew: [00:33:59] fine. We got two disappointed sponsors with my jokes. Yes.

Emily: [00:34:03] Oh yeah. We’re never going to get, we’re never going to get,

Andrew: [00:34:07] yep. Alright, well,

Emily: [00:34:10] let’s move along to talk about,

Andrew: [00:34:14] nah, talk about

Emily: [00:34:15] what talk about pedal demos.

We have a Scott from knobs. Uh, I think it’s fair to say Scott, that knobs is one of the biggest, uh, demo channels. On on the YouTubes subscribers wise. I think it’s one of my, it’s one of my favorites.

Andrew: [00:34:33] Yeah. I’ve been watching demos for years. I’ve uh, I actually, your demo for the avalanche run was one of the reasons why I jumped for it in the first place, which is how I ended up with a personalized avalanche run.

Scott: [00:34:46] Ooh, it feels good.

Andrew: [00:34:48] He had no you’ve, you’ve caused me to make some, uh, financial decisions over the years and I know I’m not the only one.

Emily: [00:34:55] Yeah.

Scott: [00:34:56] In front of the big

Emily: [00:34:57] one. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, I think that, uh, this week, well, uh, it’ll be last week now, but on labor day in America and around the world, um, you were part of a big, uh, big, uh, daily of, of demos for, um, the Juliana, the new, the new pedal from walrus walrus, which looks like a really cool pedal.

Um, But there were 40 demos and you did make a statement on Instagram about it. And, uh, so correct me if I’m wrong, but the gist was kind of like these big demo dumps kind of, um, They aren’t that they aren’t ideal. And that you feel like they kind of than the work that that demo artists do. So is that something, um, that you’d be interested in kind of expanding on and talking about a little bit more things like that?

Scott: [00:35:52] Sure. I think you, you put it more politely than I did.

Andrew: [00:35:56] I’ve got the quote right here. I could read it if you guys like

Scott: [00:35:59] you may as well, let’s set the stage here.

Andrew: [00:36:01] Alright. I’m going to read the entire, the, the, the, the entire, uh, Yep. Uh, NDD so new demo day and actual, honest to goodness demo, it’s been a while and it might be another wild before the next, the original Giulia video was kind of a special one.

So it just felt right. Comma dammit, period. That being said, boy, do I ever just, sorry,

Scott: [00:36:27] you’re extremely good. At reading quotes,

Andrew: [00:36:30] I felt like that was fair emphasis. Um, That being said, boy, do I ever dislike these massive coordinated video dumps? I had no idea about the scale of this one. And I’m honestly shocked.

I think it devalues the work of individuals. It makes us all seem like part of a big marketing machine. I’m going to be asking more questions going forward because I don’t feel good being a part of it there, period. I said it, period. All caps. Okay. Enter anyway, great pedal and I don’t fault walrus for wanting to spread the word.

I just think this approach is unsustainable and will create a lot of distrust in the long run, all caps. Anyway, enjoy the video link in bio period.

Scott: [00:37:11] Yeah, I don’t, I don’t like several days later, I don’t know that I would have said it the same way, but, um, it got some conversation started. Um,

Andrew: [00:37:21] yeah, a lot of there’s been a lot of conversations about it.

I’ve seen some other YouTube videos about it. Um, albeit the one that I saw was a laughably bad. Uh,

Emily: [00:37:33] but what people have done videos about that, that statement.

Andrew: [00:37:37] Uh, or just about payola.

Emily: [00:37:40] Oh, that was stupid. I’m not, we’re not going to give any more attention to that. That’s not what payola is. I know.

Andrew: [00:37:47] How stupid do you think musicians are?

Um, I mean, internet beef tastes good and that’s kind of the way it came off and.

Emily: [00:37:57] Yeah. Yeah. So, um, you said that you might not say it the same way. Um, how do you think you would, you would say it and also, and my other question is what prompted you to make, um, an Instagram statement like that? Uh,

Scott: [00:38:11] probably a bit of naivety to like the scale of the platform, honestly, like, um, I just, it felt like a thing that was personally important to say, but, um, I wouldn’t say it the same way cause of what Andrew just said.

Like it just came across across as like internet beef and, um, and, and provocative, which was not my intention. So, um, yeah, like walrus audio were understandably upset and felt kind of portrayed. And like that was a predictable outcome. I wasn’t thinking about that at the time. And, um, yeah, these, these like big, old video dump things do, um, do bother me.

And so like that’s obviously a state. I do stand behind the point of it just wasn’t very, uh, it wasn’t very smooth on my part saying it the way I did. Um, Did you, did

Emily: [00:39:05] you know that? Were you aware that that’s how they always do the demo releases? I don’t know what they’ve always done, like 40 plus, but I feel like they’re always at least a dozen channels and just kind of out of nowhere Walworth releases a new pack.

Scott: [00:39:20] Yes. And that’s a good, yeah, it’s a good point to distinguish because I’m. Yeah, and that’s on me and, you know, 12 videos. I don’t really object to, I don’t, I don’t object to a whole bunch of things dropping at one time. Um, I was expecting it to a certain extent, but I, it was, it was really, it all happened very fast.

I just went to go publish my video and, uh, and just to make sure that it was like actually out and I didn’t get the time wrong. I typed walrus Juliana into YouTube and I was just scrolling and scrolling and I was just like, Oh no, Oh, it was like, you know, if it on the surface or it might seem like I’m so much more calculated or whatever than it was, but it was more like just me in a moment being like, Oh my God, this is crazy.

I don’t like these things. I need to say how I feel. So that’s, it was that simple. Um, and, but, you know, even, even like the, the, the first sentence that Andrew. So kindly read for us in the quote was I haven’t done demos in awhile and this is like a big part of why is, um, I do feel more and more like people are becoming a little skeptical and jaded about these videos and I don’t think it’s deserved, um, because the vast, vast majority of people making these videos are like, there is no corporate, um, scheming going on in the background, you know, like walrus is doing like a very.

Simple and, and, and smart thing by just gathering up people to make videos. It makes sense. And all of the people that are made them, aren’t, they’re not being told what to say. Um, and they’re just individuals who are like stoked to have early access to foot pedal and play it. Um, so it is, it is innocent, but the more it happens, the less innocent it appears on the surface.

Um, and that’s, that’s the risk. And that’s why I feel like it’s unsustainable, um, in the long run.

Emily: [00:41:18] Yeah. And I, I do feel like, um, It is. It’s always, for me, hard to distinguish between the people who are commenting on a post, who just want to agree with you to agree with you and, and not, not specifically you or this, but just kind of in general and other people who like actually agree with you because they agree with the sentiment.

And I mean, I do agree with the sentiment. I think that 40 is a lot of demos. And I, I don’t really have a big place to talk about this. I was not invited to do the Juliana demo and anything negative. I say people will construe as me being a little bitter about not being part of it and full disclosure.

Like I was, I was bummed. I was bummed that there were, they picked 40 demo artists and literally none of them were, were women. Um, that was more disappointing to me. Than, um, than that, I wasn’t a part of it at all. I wish they would’ve found, uh, somebody, if not me, to, to, you know, represent women. And I feel like walrus has like done ads and she shreds and stuff, and they have a couple of female artists like Julian Baker.

Who likes their stuff. So that was one of the issues I had with the launch was that, you know, there was some diversity in there and I do applaud that. I applaud that they didn’t just get a bunch of English language channels, or a bunch of American based channels, or even a North American channels. Um, they did seem to branch out quite a bit.

Um, Andrew, I’m going to close this chat, so if there’s anything good happening, please. Let me know.

Andrew: [00:42:57] I know what you’re talking about.

Emily: [00:42:58] Okay. All right. Also I know that person that they just mentioned, and I would be really surprised to hear that. So I’m gonna have to close all my YouTube,

Andrew: [00:43:08] this part out.

Emily: [00:43:10] Yeah.

Oh my God, where are these? I’ve closed? Sorry. I keep getting notifications and I would like to turn off all notifications for Chrome. Great, fantastic. Uh, sorry. It’s hard to talk when you just could keep getting beings in your ears. Um, so like, I really do applaud them for, you know, having some diversity, but I also kind of, I wonder as a marketing person, what even.

Is the effectiveness of such a large coordinated drop versus spacing out your assets?

Scott: [00:43:46] I don’t think it’s good.

Emily: [00:43:48] I don’t, I don’t know if it’s good. I think that it is really much like a shotgun blast, like in, into the air and kind of seeing, seeing what it hits. But, um, I mean, everybody who plays pedals, I think knows that walrus came out with a Juliana and.

Uh, that’s good, but I think it’s also important to gauge, like, what is the reaction to that? Like, are people getting yeah. Tired of it? Cause I saw more than one comment in more than one place. Like not even, yeah, just your Instagram posts, but some other videos that it just kind of felt, felt weird and kind of.

Growth and to, to coordinate it, I guess. I don’t know. I think people like authentic authenticity. And then when they realize that this is actually a business that exists for the sole purpose, truly this whole purpose of making money, like most businesses. Um, I shouldn’t say that about walrus. I don’t know.

They have other reasons to make things I’m sure, uh, to make things sound good, but this is a business and exist to make money. And is that the smartest decision to do, just to coordinate a dump of all your assets at once?

Scott: [00:44:56] Totally. Yeah. One thing I find really interesting for whatever reason is like, um, I’m really into synthesis and modular synthesis and.

It seems like there’s very little like people that are in a guitar stuff or pedals or whatever, tend to just stick to that and not explore sense or whatever it’s generalizing. But, um, this, this kind of whole thing has already played out. Um, in the synth community, there was a whole bunch of backlash to Arturia and some of their, their launches.

Um, and I think that those, those launches were smaller than the one that walrus just did in terms of like coordinated video drops. Um, So that’s definitely like kind of informing my opinion is, you know, someone who, who makes videos, um, I care about this more than people normally would. Um, and I was already kind of skeptical about what would happen when these launches just get bigger and bigger and bigger.

And then, and then I saw it happen. So that was kind of, uh, in my mind is, is that I, you know, there, I think there’s a capacity, I think there has to be. And I also like, like I was saying earlier, I think that, um, It’s just not the way it appears. And I think that’s a shame is, is that people making these videos aren’t.

You know, there’s no like a conference call with walrus audio and all the video makers, it doesn’t happen. Like the communication is so sparse and simple and, and, and just honest, but then when the end result is lumped into this coordinated video drop, it just, it, it appears so much more sinister and corporate than it should.

And it’s just a shame. And, uh, and to your point earlier, I don’t really think it, it helps, I think it would be better to space them out anyway. So it’s kind of like everybody’s losing with this approach.

Emily: [00:46:39] Yeah. I mean, I, there were channels big, a lot bigger than mine that got fewer views on the exciting new launch of an exciting new project product by a very well known company.

They’re videos that have channels that were bigger than mine. That got few reviews. At least last time I looked then my demo of a dog man devices pedal that, you know, I did kind of as a favor to Lance, like. Like, he’s not a big company and yet, and I’m not a big channel. And just because it wasn’t part of a date luge, I think, I think that’s why people watched it almost like, I think it was a favor to me to not be a part of that.

And I say that in the data, this launches I’m scheduled to be part of the launch. And I don’t know how many other pedals. Are going to be a part, I don’t know how many other demos are going to be a part of it. Um, but it’s a really cool pedal and I was just excited to have it. And there was nothing weird in our Pfarius about, about doing the launch the way I’m doing it, that just like they want to release.

The pedal at a certain date and time. And, um, they’re the, it’s their rules and they wanted all the girls at the same time. Yeah,

Andrew: [00:47:52] sure. So I’d like to step in and clarify a couple of things real quick. So hearing you talk about this, the concern, the overwhelming concern from you seems to be about the optics of a launch like this, and kind of from a marketing perspective, both out of concern for the company, that’s releasing the product as well as we’re.

The optics for all of those involved and how that makes their channel look cause. The way you seem to frame this is, this makes all of the channels involved, a complicit in some sort of a corporate center scheme is the way that it comes off for a lot of folks. Uh, but the, the way that it came off in the, the original quote, the way you framed it, um, led to some criticism.

I’ve seen a couple of forums that kind of sits along the realm of like, Oh, he didn’t know that he was like, this is a, this is a marketing gig. He didn’t know that, um, kind of. Like this is par for the course sort of criticism. And that seems really strange for you to be the, the criticism was that it seemed like you were trying to claim some sort of artistic integrity is sort of the way it came off.

That’s not what I’m hearing out of you though. And I just wanted to clarify that, that, that, that I’m hearing that correct?

Scott: [00:49:01] Yeah. I think it’s a, it’s a fine kind of rebuttal, but, um, I think. I think it’s because they presume that we are aware is the thing. And for me it’s more like, okay, I got an email from haulers, audio, um, I’ve I’ve been, so I’ve been not doing demos at all.

Um, because, because it’s, I can only speak for myself right now, but yeah, I haven’t been doing demos at all because I kinda just got worn out. Um, and then I got this email and was like, okay, this, I can make an exception here because the Julia, I think the Giulia is the most watched demo I’ve ever made. So just felt a little, um, sentimental.

So, you know, the whole thought process is a very like sure. I know they’re paying me. Like I know I’m helping them to, to sell a thing. Like there’s no naivety there, but when I’m making the decision about whether to take it or not, it’s, it’s like it’s pretty personal and there’s other things I could do.

And so, um, and I was aware that there’d be some kind of coordinated launch, but then when it hits a certain point, I feel like, you know, If everyone knows that walrus is out to sell their pedals. And so the, like the backlash from something like that, this is history pretty small to them. Like everyone knows what their intentions are, but I think that, um, People that are making these videos, do them for a variety of reasons.

And I think that the credibility goes a lot further. Like maybe people don’t think that I’m objective. Maybe that’s like already out the window. Um, but I am, and it’s, what’s important to me to like, maintain that and to make that clear as like I’m not doing things cause people tell me to I’m doing them because I want to, um, it is a job, but I can, I, I’m still able to do it in a way that I feel good about.

Um, and. That’s important and something like this just makes me feel like, Oh, I was complicit in something I didn’t want to be. And I wasn’t aware of it in advance.

Emily: [00:50:59] Yeah. No, that, that makes sense. Um, a lot of people have, uh, you know, I feel like I’ve seen some criticism that just, like you said, people will say that, or an Andrew said that you took money for this, and then they feel like you’re then.

Bad talking the company. I think that, from what you said at walrus probably feels that way a little bit, and it sounds like that wasn’t really your intention, but I mean, how, how do you, how do you, how do you, how do you rectify that?

Scott: [00:51:27] Yeah, I think that’s kind of, to just be very simple about like, that’s why I would have said things differently is, um, You know, I think walrus were like justifiably upset about it and there’s, there’s more I could have done to just figure out the scale of things.

And, and also they didn’t know the scale. I think it’s important is, is, um, you know, after all this there’ve been conversations with them and they. You know, they didn’t send out all of those pedals with the intent of having them demo. There was a, there was some kind of like, event that happened.

Emily: [00:51:58] Well, the 40, the 42 gear street.

Yeah. Somebody had that pedal and then they all did demos. That was probably at least 10 of them. Yeah.

Scott: [00:52:06] Yeah. So there were, there were things outside of their control and, um, and, and I will say that like, they’ve been. Walrus has been very receptive to my thoughts. No, no, no. They’re not totally agreeing with me.

I think that they, they liked their approach and, uh, we just like respectfully disagreed, but I mean, I get it, I guess that’s the point. I see why someone would see me speaking out and being like, no, I’m just trying to have it both ways and like make money and be an artist. And, um,

Emily: [00:52:36] Oh, you can’t make money and be an artist.

That’s just those, those, you gotta do it for the love of the art or you do it for the money. That’s what everybody says, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Scott: [00:52:45] I just think was a lot of stuff. Like this is more simple than it appears, you know, it just really is like,

Emily: [00:52:52] people love to imagine the Pfarius thing. I think that’s why conspiracy theories are so big, but like, I also do kind of want to know, like what, what, what people think.

Is happening that’s nefarious.

Scott: [00:53:05] I mean, the scale of the nefarious Snus would be that like everyone’s getting together and, and, you know, marketing like a traditional company would, um, You know, like that’s the peak nefarious, Snus. It’s not like legitimately unethical or anything.

Emily: [00:53:19] We’re all gonna, we know this, this pedal is a lemon, but we’re all going to act like it’s frigging fantastic.

Like they’re their pedals I’ve played that just didn’t drive with me. And I just kind of presented them in as the, in the demo as was I’d let people see it, like. Occasionally malfunctioning. And honestly, the guy who built that pedal where I showed it malfunctioning, um, he was actually thankful that I did that and it still gets a lot of use and he’s made a bunch of improvements and I think I’m going to get the improved one soon, but like I, yeah, I don’t know what people think is happening.

I think that people, I think there’s got to be a lot of positive. There’s a lot of positivity in these demos, partially because I think that if. If you don’t like a pedal, maybe it just isn’t right for you. Maybe it’s not a bad pedal. And I don’t want to say that something’s a bad product. If I, if I know that it would fit with somebody is, you know, Sonic goals, like, like you were talking about feedback loops and, and self oscillating and kind of bad, scary noises that, you know, that’s right in a lot of people’s wheelhouses and I don’t want to.

I don’t want to talk bad about something just because it’s not for me. It’s like, I don’t want to wear Palazzo pants, but somebody wants to wear Palazzo pants. I’m not going to like judge them.

Scott: [00:54:37] What’s a pole.

Emily: [00:54:39] Um, I think it’s just like, it’s like, um, big flowy. Like I think they might have been called elephant bell-bottoms at some point or like this, like the really big flowy Pat it’s I don’t know.

I don’t know how to describe them. Hmm,

I’m

Andrew: [00:54:55] going to be maybe a more relevant, you know, comparison would be like, if someone wants to have pineapple on their pizza, I’m not going to judge them

Emily: [00:55:02] for it. I love that.

Scott: [00:55:06] I don’t know why that’s a subject of discussion who gives a heck. How about pizza put on your pizza,

Andrew: [00:55:14] internet beef tastes good.

Look, I, as far as like the coordinated dump, like for like that nefarious marketing thing, I don’t think people like, feeling like they’ve been lied to people. Don’t like feeling like they’ve been played. And

Emily: [00:55:27] I don’t like feeling like they’re being marketed to they don’t. Yeah.

Andrew: [00:55:31] And that’s, that’s a pretty normal thing and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that sentiment.

Sure. There’s a little bit of naivety on the part of the consumer to think that they’re not being marketed to day in and day out by so many different companies. There’s a reason why data is by personal data is worth so much money, but I definitely get why people would be upset by that. I think it’s interesting that you mentioned that there was a vent, uh, you guys said with 42 gear street, who’s passing it around.

Emily: [00:56:00] Yeah, that was a, the hinting Polly event.

Andrew: [00:56:02] Isn’t that? Well, because for most launches, a company is going to make you sign an NDA. And so isn’t that within Walters’s control to say, Hey, we had an NDA to only send it to one of you guys. Why did 10 of you get to see it before? Right?

Emily: [00:56:22] Yeah, we have signed one, Andrew.

Andrew: [00:56:25] Okay. Well,

Emily: [00:56:27] and that was with strand and most usually it just says hush, hush. Sure, but they don’t like what you did, if you just mind, they don’t like, you’re not going to get the next one.

Andrew: [00:56:37] I think there’s, I think it’s fair to say that there’s a least an implied NDA. Is that, am I wrong there? That feel like, that seems like it in good faith.

We gave you this pedal, keep it on the down low sort of thing. I

Scott: [00:56:50] mean, it’s a good question. I like a lot of the questions you’re asking. Um, I think, you know, the pressure, the, the, the only like real. Deal that’s made from, you know, I’m not going to events with my pedal, but it’s just like, don’t share this before this date, please.

Emily: [00:57:07] Don’t be a jerk. Like you’re going to, you can, you can show your friends, you can show your family shoot. You can record with it as long as you don’t. Say what it is and post pictures of it.

Scott: [00:57:19] Yeah. Don’t spill the beans.

Andrew: [00:57:20] Right. I just, the reason why I’m asking that is you mentioned that it was outside of walruses control, and I wanted to clarify whether or not that like, cause if there wasn’t NDA, maybe that is more and more versus control to come back and say to 42 gear street, you guys screwed up.

We’re not okay with that.

Emily: [00:57:40] I do about it, honestly. Just not ever send those big demo artists. They’re pedal ever

Andrew: [00:57:45] again, maybe, uh, there’s there’s definitely a level of, they need the demo artist to market their equipment and that’s why they’re paying for it. And, uh, so there’s, there’s a power dynamic there.

Scott: [00:58:01] Go on. Go

Emily: [00:58:02] ahead. No, you go ahead.

Scott: [00:58:03] I was going to say again, it’s just a case of it just being so much simpler than you’d think like, you know, they sent it to Henning poly cause they do, um, you know, they probably send them everything they make. And then now that this has happened, is it, is it really worth like going and reprimanding him?

Like not really. You know, it’s kind of just like, okay, well that happened. Um,

Emily: [00:58:22] yeah. You know, maybe, please not do it next time.

Scott: [00:58:24] Yeah. And maybe they’ll like, I am, I am advocating for like a change. Definitely. I think what I’m not trying to say is that anyone is necessarily like innocent or a villain. Like I think that I.

I definitely I’m going to make some adjustments. Cause I think I made some mistakes in this campaign. Um, and it seems like walrus is considering doing the same. Um, but you know, I’m going to be asking more questions about how things are going to be released going forward. I’ve never felt the need to do that is the thing I’ve made over a hundred demos.

And this is the first time where I was truly taken off guard. Um, But now I will. And I’m also going to start writing reviews because I think that this, um, you know, just showing what the sounds are is, you know, creating the impression of being like a, the marketing arm of a company. So these are like some steps I’m taking and will continue to take to feel good.

Um, and I think, you know, walrus will probably do the same and, and. Yeah, it’s, it’s just simple, you know, they made an honest mistake with, or not even a mistake, but like they just didn’t realize that that would happen with the gear street thing. And then it did. And it’s not a huge deal. None of it is.

Emily: [00:59:33] I mean, they got, they got free videos out of it, but as I dealt, those guys went back later and be like, Hey, now you gotta pay me my root.

Absolutely not.

Andrew: [00:59:45] Yeah. I mean, they were just, they’re getting in early to try and get a share of the views on launch day to help promote their channel.

Emily: [00:59:52] Yeah. I don’t think, I don’t think that worked. I don’t

Andrew: [00:59:56] think it worked. Yeah.

Emily: [00:59:59] The numbers, the numbers. I don’t know how it compares to your normal view. You’d view count, Scott, but someone else told me that it was only in it ranked seven out of 10 and their 10 most recent releases.

Like it was just. Yup.

Scott: [01:00:15] Definitely lower than normal,

Emily: [01:00:16] for sure. Yeah. I think, I think the daily, which was a big part of that, and then it kind of begs the question, well, are they still getting the numbers they wanted to get overall? And I think a lot of people were, I don’t think it was a small number of people who got, um, kind of felt like it was too much like an absolute flood of demos.

And I think. Especially post fire festival. I think people are kind of more aware of what those coordinated can pain’s look like. And like, like you said, they’re not, they’re not in the Pfarius, it’s just like, Hey everybody, let’s get together and do this at the same time. I mean, I used to do marketing for concerts and live events and festivals, and that’s, that’s exactly what we wanted to happen on launch day.

We wanted, when we released our lineup, we wanted everybody to post about it at roughly the same time we want to flood, uh, you know, Instagram feeds. And we just want to get the word out because that’s one of the best times to sell tickets is like when he released the lineup. So like that is, it’s a marketing technique it’s sure.

Sure. But I mean, y’all have to gauge the response that people have to it. I mean, I could talk about the walrus release in particular and say like, I think they messed up not having any women demo the pedal. I think that is kind of weird that they had just released the V two of the Julia back in January.

And now they’re essentially releasing what is kind of like a V3. Like if I had bought them, I’d be, uh, annoyed. That I could have just waited and gotten something with, with more features. You know what I mean? And honestly, the trailer that they did that kind of played on the missing woman trope, I thought that was, um, that made me sick to my stomach.

I didn’t like it at all. I thought it was a bad decision. Sure. I mean,

Andrew: [01:02:06] I think there’s, I think those are all fair criticisms of this particular launch, but looking at it,

Emily: [01:02:11] I don’t even think the flood of the 40 demos was the worst part of it. I mean, So

Andrew: [01:02:17] speaking about the flood specifically. So the reason why I’m trying to, to, to home in on that a little bit here is the point with 42 gears, three adds a little bit more of complexity and it kind of opens up the window into the, that wasn’t this nefarious launch, I think opens up the window into it’s not walrus audio’s fault necessarily.

It sounds like it was intended to be a lot less of that. And the reason why I’m trying to home in on that is the, the caption that was put in that Instagram posts seem to really directly target wallers. And you said a couple of times now that they’re justifiably upset as a result. And if knowing a little bit more about how the situation happened behind the scenes, it sounds like maybe they are also just as blindsided by this and maybe this wasn’t part of their calculation for reaching that critical mass of diminishing returns.

Um, from a marketing value on the lunch,

Scott: [01:03:17] I’d say so to an extent.

Emily: [01:03:20] Yeah.

Andrew: [01:03:20] And so with all of that in mind, is, would you maybe want to be interested in making some sort of a, let’s say Colt is listening to this podcast? Would, is there anything you want to say to, to him after this?

Scott: [01:03:32] Oh, I mean, I’ve already spoken with Colt, like a, I don’t know if a public apologies necessary, but, um,

Emily: [01:03:41] Yeah.

I don’t think you need to feel like you need to say,

Andrew: [01:03:43] I’m not saying I’m just, I’m opening the floor, whatever you want to say

Emily: [01:03:47] on that. They kind of like how we said earlier, like you said, you, like, you did say that you would say it differently. Yeah. And I think that you’ve kind of explained how the different way you would say it.

Totally. And I think you’ve also already mentioned like what, what you learned and all that. So like, you know, don’t feel like you

Scott: [01:04:02] have, honestly, the only thing I’m going to say, and it only occurred to me like five minutes ago is there’s, there’s a slim chance of that doing this podcast has made things worse.

Like I’m not trying to make it a big story and it wasn’t, it was never, it was never my intention to cook up some beef. I was speaking from a very personal place. Um, so yeah, I hope it doesn’t make things worse. I think, I think that walrus were. Were upset in a justifiable way and receptive and, uh, yeah.

And, and I would soften the way I said things if I could.

Emily: [01:04:34] Yeah. And I think that they handled that, um, publicly well enough. Um, I don’t think there was, I don’t think they could’ve handled it better publicly than they did. Um, their response was, you know, I think measured is probably a good way to say that and it wasn’t our intention to have you on and only talk about that.

It just kind of turned into that.

Scott: [01:04:57] Yeah. I mean, I don’t mind, it’s just, you know, I’m really not trying to put wires through the ringer. That’s like, that’s the point? This is more about me. Right.

Andrew: [01:05:05] And that I that’s part of what I was trying to, to build into is I really don’t think it’s fair to put them through the ringer for that.

For that specific part of it either. And I think it’s really cool to hear you say that and to hear that there’s a level of, um, reflecting and adjusting and moving forward in a positive and healthy manner, I think is, I think is more of what this industry needs. 

Emily: [01:05:29] and I think that Andrew had mentioned earlier that there, there is a video going around where somebody, these, these two folks, um, they say that.

Uh, they, they liken paid demos to payola and they said something like somebody is getting 10,000 charging, $10,000 for pedal demos, which, um, doesn’t sound right at all. Like, I don’t know. I don’t think that there are really any you laugh.

Scott: [01:06:00] Yeah. I’d just love to know. It’s great.

Emily: [01:06:04] No, but it ain’t nobody getting that from pedal demos because, uh, like I don’t think there are very many.

Pedal manufacturers who would pay, who have that kind of budget for a single video. I mean, if you go into like a commercial warehouse and a film, a demo, the big major agency, yes. They’re going to charge you $10,000, at least $2,000 for the videography work alone without a supplied audience. And that’s just how much like videography theatrical videography can cause.

But to, to say that someone like. I know that you don’t charge $10,000 for demos and you’re one of the biggest channels.

Scott: [01:06:43] Yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s interesting. Like all things are possible, but, uh, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a reach. It’s a pretty big reach and yeah. I mean, if someone charged $10,000 for a demo, there’s like maybe five companies that could afford it.

And of that five, like would they probably, probably not. I don’t know. I mean, that’s a reflection on the companies too. Like, I don’t know that that many companies are like, sure, let’s spend $10,000 in this one video.

Emily: [01:07:12] I think that someone like a then when they did or fender, when they do in house videography, I think that when everything is said and done, when they bring in the artists like Vanessa Wheeler, uh, when they shoot the videos, um, I think that.

All of that combined could come to $10,000. That’s what you’re paying for a marketing asset. You’re not paying a demo artist’s $10,000 to review, or just play your pedal for, you know, 10 minutes in front of their audience of, you know, a hundred thousand. Like that’s just not that math. Doesn’t add up. The idea of comparing it to payola is weird.

And I think that most demo people, I think that they’re being honest when, when they review gear or they’re at least trying to be measured because what good does it do to just share on, uh, a pedal? Like what, what good does it do? I don’t think it does anything. Yeah.

Scott: [01:08:09] And reviewing creative tools is really sketchy territory.

I think it can be done. Like, I think sound on sound are extremely good at it. Um, but it’s, uh, Yeah, it’s an odd thing to do because one person’s garbage is another is gold. And, uh, aside from like obvious things like, Oh, the knob does nothing. The first half of it, the sweep, and then things happen, which is almost never the case.

Like what do you, what can you really objectively review in a, in a pedal? That’s why I always liked doing demos. It’s like, here’s the sounds you can achieve. Yeah,

Emily: [01:08:41] the boost doesn’t the boost. Doesn’t isn’t boosty enough. I’ll I mean, I’ll talk about, um, my biggest thing with pedals is, is personally, like, if I don’t feel like they go far enough, like, if I, if I’m like, I don’t know why they didn’t go all the way out with the rate on this tremolo or something like that.

Like I just feel like you should be able to do more. Then you need to do versus wanting more. And that’s really my most common, negative criticism of any pedal I’ve ever demoed.

Scott: [01:09:13] Yeah. I feel like the things that matter with any pedal are so subjective that, I mean, I kind of made this choice on purpose.

Like I really feel like a pedal review will mislead you more than it will help you for the most part, because the stuff that matters, like the stuff that makes it a part of your music and your workflow is so, so personal. And there’s no way you’re going to know until you use it. Like it could sound great.

It could do exactly what you want. And there’s something about the way it works. That’ll just be a deal breaker for you. Like that’s, I mean, that’s how musical things work. So it’s, um, you know, saying something is good or bad is, is a bit silly.

Emily: [01:09:54] Yeah. Unless it’s, unless it doesn’t work, that’s really the only, unless it doesn’t work, if like.

You can’t, if the input jacks like it, you can’t actually get anything in there.

Scott: [01:10:05] Easily. The input X or the wrong size.

Emily: [01:10:08] Yeah. Yeah. Or the toggle, like I have one guitar where the toggle keeps like bouncing back into the middle. Actually. I think I got rid of that guitar, but like, things like that, like that you don’t yet, you’ve probably aren’t even gonna know by the time you film a demo, like,

Scott: [01:10:25] unless it’s not working, you’re not going to care.

Yeah. Surely both of you have things that are like kind of broken and you barely even notice. Cause they’re so useful for you in other ways, like, I dunno as someone who like, as much as I make this stuff, I also consume it and I like buy musical instruments and I really rely on reviews and demos. Cause you just want, you need some, some input.

Um, you know, I’m just really aware of how like. I’ll read a review and be like, ah, yeah, that’s not for me. And then I’ll catch myself and be like, wait, none of those things apply to the way I make music. Like, I don’t record a string quartet ever, like I’m shopping for Mike’s. Right. And I was like, why do I give it if this sounds bad for a string quartet?

I don’t. And I think that more than we realize reviews kind of have this effect on us, we just trust this like floating texts. Like we don’t even know the person who wrote it and are just like, okay, yeah, this, this mic. Isn’t the best.

Emily: [01:11:18] Yeah, no, that’s such like people say and that you need to have like very, really expensive mics to record your guitars and you watch Gilliam Welch and Dave Rawlings, the Academy awards, and they’re just playing into S and 57.

And they’re like, well, maybe you don’t need the $5,000 microphone. Maybe the, maybe the $88 on the use marketplace microphone. If it’s good, like, if it’s good enough for them, then maybe it’s good enough for you. Like. I always say, you don’t need this expensive gear. Like you don’t need the chase plus automaton, but it’s really, really cool.

Like, and if it works with your workflow and if it’s something that you feel like would help you reach whatever goal you’re trying to achieve sonically or in live situations, then yes, it is. It’s a great pedal for you. And if you don’t need those things and it’s not a good pedal for you, I also think it’s just a big part of like human culture in a lot of ways, too.

Kind of be negative about something if it’s not for you or try to make it about you, if it’s not for you. And I think that that’s a big, that’s a big problem. We face, uh, every day in the, in the world and in the gear community. It’s not, it’s not, it’s not great in the gear like, Oh, you need this. I’m like, well, maybe, maybe not.

Andrew: [01:12:26] Well, sure. I think a really great example of. Of that might be like metals, uh, metal zone demos. Cause like I remember the, the waza came out and I watched Pete Thorne’s demo and I’m like, Oh, Oh shoot. This sounds weird. Then I remember it sounding. And then I went and go play it in store. I’m like, Oh, yeah.

Nope. It’s a metal zone. I just don’t, it doesn’t work for me. It doesn’t do what I want it to do. It doesn’t integrate in a rig the way that I want it to. And that’s fine. It’s still a great pedal. It just doesn’t do it for me personally. Totally. But, and maybe it doesn’t do it for Pete personally, either, but that doesn’t mean he’s being dishonest in the way that he’s presenting it either.

I think that’s a completely fair thing to say.

Scott: [01:13:12] And I do think people know this, like I think. Every musician, once you’ve gone through a few waves of like gear, acquisition and trading and whatever, like everybody implicitly knows this is true, but I think it’s, you easily, easily forget you forget that when you look at your own collection of stuff, it’s made up of things that like other people would hate or are half broken or like barely make sense for you.

But they just stuck for some reason, like everyone’s collection of musical stuff is like that. Um, But we just forget. And I think a lot of the conversation that happens online, which is really what we’re talking about, um, Ignores that, or like couldn’t possibly address that. So you get swept up in the other part of it, which is, you know, the good and the bad and nine out of 10, which is nonsense.

Andrew: [01:13:57] You mean to tell me that the internet thrives on the ignorance of nuance?

Emily: [01:14:03] No internet. Internet’s so good at nuance. That’s why there are those weird tags on Reddit, like forward slash S. Sarcasm implies sarcasm every time I’m like reading the guitar pedals, jerks on Reddit. I’m like EV there’s like forward slash UJ.

And I’m like, I don’t know what that means. Like people know what this means. It doesn’t seem like it doesn’t really stand for anything that makes sense. It’s like, why are you doing this?

Scott: [01:14:36] That place given me can be really brilliant sometimes.

Emily: [01:14:40] Yeah. It can, it can also be really scary. They hated the, they hated the flood of 10 pounds on, on guitar pedal jerks.

I think that they they’re like kind of in that, that realm of, um, it’s so popular and they see it so much, they just kind of get sick of it. And I think that’s another kind of, part of, we were talking earlier about people not liking bands once they become famous. I think the same thing ultimately happens with gear that was once boutique.

It was like, Oh, that’s something I haven’t seen before too. Like why does every board in the world have the same pedals? And, uh, I just think that people get kind of like nothing is that good and get kind of a burnt out on it and probably just grumpy and have some of their own things to work.

Scott: [01:15:31] I mean, I think that’s what it comes

Emily: [01:15:32] down to you, right?

Andrew: [01:15:33] Yeah. These are also the people that are making fun of Billie Eilish, his new signature ukulele and complaining about it.

Emily: [01:15:39] Yeah. Yeah. And

Scott: [01:15:40] I think, like, not to demonize, whoever, whoever mysterious people were talking about, I think we all do this. Like whether you get on the internet and type about it is something different.

Um, but we all have these thoughts. Like, yeah. I tend to go after things that not everybody’s using. Um, so. Yeah. We’ll

Andrew: [01:15:57] find effort. It’s like Mumford insides. It’s only cool until everyone else finds out about it.

Emily: [01:16:03] Yeah. I know. It’s like, I love bookworm devices and if they got big, I hope I would still like them.

I hope they get big. I think that they deserve to be bigger than they are. I think Brian over there makes some really interesting stuff. I don’t think he listens to this podcast. That’s fine. Bookworm

Scott: [01:16:22] devices.

Emily: [01:16:23] Book. Oh, sorry. If I say vice bookworm effects, they’re based out of Western. Mmm. But they make some really cool stuff.

And I like, they’re my favorite pedal of theirs, I think, is that the lave and foster Wallace, which can work like a normal delay that has an infinite hold switch, but it also has a toggle. So you can have the, the amount of light in the room controls the, the speed of the delay the time. So you can do cool stuff like.

Wave your hand over it. And it will just get this really slow, low flow, low fi clunky, like kind of sound with the delay. You can use it with strobes, if you are comfortable around strobes, which a lot of people aren’t shining a flashlight at it and stuff like that. So it just, it ends up being like a really cool kind of, uh, environmentally influenced pedal, which I think is really neat.

Nice. Yes. I loaned that one to my singer. And that’s, I think one of her favorites right now.

Cool. It’s cool. It’s cool. For someone to, for some, to see people develop a love of something that you are really interested in when they’ve never really had it before or understood it before. Um, so that’s been really, that’s been really cool, a cool experience, and I think more people are having that experience and I think it’s more important now than ever.

That there are people who are, you know, showcasing how they’re using different pedals and effects, um, on the internet, because we’re not really at a time where we can go into a store and like try out five different delay pedals, because even the stores that are open are putting restrictions on like what you’re able to touch.

Andrew: [01:18:06] Depends on where you’re at. Some people don’t care. So question I have for you, you talked a little bit ever so briefly about the fallout from Arturia over in the modular synth world. And I I’m curious because it seems like a pretty direct, uh, analogous situation to what we’ve got right now. How did that resolve, did it resolve, did it get ugly?

Was it, how did that play out? And how do you think is how likely do you think it is that the gear industry on the guitar pedal side of things is gonna play out the same way?

Scott: [01:18:39] Well, a TRIA adjusted since that release. Um, I think they felt that like the, the backlash wasn’t worth the potential, uh, good press or whatever from doing a big video launch like that.

So they’ve really chilled out their launches. Um, and yeah, PR I think personally, I’m not like a, it’s kind of strange, we’re talking about this. Like I already kind of feel like it’s like embarrassingly too much, but, um, Like I don’t like a provocative thing, and this is all like a bit out of my comfort zone.

Um, I think the reason that I, I did feel comfortable saying anything at all is I think it’s an inevitability. That’s, that’s my take on it. I think whether I said that or not people were going to be put off by it. And I think whether people were put off by this release or not, it was going to happen. Um, Yes.

And

Emily: [01:19:28] people were put off by it. You’re totally right.

Scott: [01:19:31] Yeah. And I think, and I do, I do kind of in my own, um, view on this or like rationale, I do put the people, making these videos at the center of it, because I think there it’s going to be them that like feels the first wave of like hurt from it. Like whatever product our trigger released is still sold.

Like crazy. I’m sure. Um, But what’s going to happen is people making these videos are just going to be like unwilling to be a part of it after a certain point, because, because their audience is really getting mad at them. And that’s kind of more, what happened with the Arturia thing is I think, I think the, um, the D the attacks towards the, the video makers and YouTube, hers was like more direct and they all kind of felt like, Whoa.

Um, so I, I do feel like it’s unsustainable. I think there’s just like a, a point where people will not be into it anymore. And. Adjustment will be necessary.

Emily: [01:20:23] Yeah. Yeah. But, um, at the same time, I know Ryan Burke has pointed this out. Like, do we think it would have been better for walrus to do 10 videos a day?

For a couple of days or do 10 videos, wait a couple of weeks and do 10 and wait a couple of weeks. New 10. I mean, I think, I think so. I think it would have spread out. Like, I think it would have lengthened the time. Would it have meant that those, those pedal built those demo artists down the line, um, got fewer views?

Well, no, I don’t actually think they would’ve gotten a few reviews. Cause I don’t think a lot of people were getting a ton of use on launch day for it. Maybe, maybe siphoning out the mat a little bit better. Would have, uh, actually helped those channels as well. I mean, it’s always helpful. Like I, at the same time, I know that if I’m the first, one of the first people who gets a demo out, um, I’m going to do better, but I’m a smaller channel.

So yeah,

Scott: [01:21:21] we did that for the blooper release actually. So

Emily: [01:21:24] I feel like I did get to demo the blueprint. It was great. It did really well for me, weeks later.

Scott: [01:21:30] I presume we kind of get, yeah, like we just kind of told everyone straight up, like we did, we don’t think these are very good. Uh, that’s a very good strategy.

Um, and you know, we’re kind of hoping you can release between these dates and left it at that. And I don’t think anyone was upset about that approach. Um, like to me, there were no negatives at all to doing it that way. So I think we chose like less than 10 people for like launch day release and. You know, maybe some feelings were hurt.

Like I’m sure everybody wants to be part of the launch day release, but I think most video makers do realize like this is also in my best interest and feel a similar way

Emily: [01:22:09] about it.  totally, I mean, it also meant that I wasn’t under such a, I mean, I wasn’t part of the initial launch. I did it much later.

But I got to spend more time with the pedal, which I feel like made my demo stronger because I had a better understanding of, of what it could do. And that’s especially important and more and more complex pedals, um, to not, to not rush that.

Scott: [01:22:35] Totally. Sure.

Andrew: [01:22:38] Yeah. Like, I don’t know. I get why like siphoning it out a few, a few at a time makes sense from marketing for a second.

Makes perfect sense. But part of me wants to shake every single person that watches these things and say, look, this is America. We like things like all at once and instant gratification, just having a treasure trove of. Quality videos on something just immediately. And I just, part of me wonders, like why?

Like I get it, but there’s also the part of me. That’s like, I dunno, like part of you would rather just kind of have them all and just have a chance to sit down and binge watch five hours of, of demos. Maybe I I’m just a fanatic and there’s something I should see a therapist about that, but yeah, I don’t know it.

I just think it’s, it’s funny that this is where it ends up. Playing out,

Scott: [01:23:24] but I mean, 10 videos is already a lot of videos, right? Like, are you telling me you’d watch more than 10 in a sitting, you can, it’s fine. But it’s a lot, it’s already a lot and

Andrew: [01:23:36] it wouldn’t be first time I’ve done it, but I don’t make a habit of

Scott: [01:23:38] it.

I mean, personally, I also know that there’s like, there’s this real, which is also stupid, but there’s this real like human phenomena where, you know, you want to, you’d rather watch something when it’s new than when it’s old. So like, I, I personally, if I’m considering buying something 10 videos on release day, great.

I’ll gobble them up. And then, you know, if there’s like a video a day going forward, I’m far more likely to take an interest in those than to go back to the other 30. I didn’t watch on launch day. Cause those already kind of feel like old news, you know, there’s like some part of the human brain that would rather watch the new thing.

Andrew: [01:24:13] Sure. I think, yeah. I think also part of it might be I’m going to go out on a total limb here, but a lot of people just don’t have money laying around where they can just buy stuff as it’s released just for the hell of it. Uh, sure. Part of me wonders if there’s not like this voyeuristic sort of. Unspoken want out of watching these demo videos is to want to feel like you’re a part of something special.

Like when you’re watching only the 10. And when you go, when you see that there’s 40 of them, suddenly it kind of takes that takes that away from you. And if some, if you’re for someone who wasn’t even going to buy it in the first place, But just wanting to, to kind of live that moment of like, Oh, this I’m, I’m experiencing part of something that’s really cool and unique and exclusive and boutique and all of these other buzzwords that we, we like to associate and add value or add perceived value to a product.

I think even for the people that are buying it, cause let’s be honest, not everyone went out and bought a Juliana that day. And a lot of the people who were talking about the Juliana at Warren aren’t. Realistically, if we’re going to buy one, so I could be completely off base there, but

Emily: [01:25:26] that’s time. One of the most important things about marketing and one of the most, um, one, one thing that’s very important is, is the repetition, because, so you have a, you have a, you have a sales funnel at the top of the sales funnel is, is awareness.

And then you move down to like consideration into the purchasing. So that’s one of the reasons that. If you’ve ever bought ads with podcasts or radio, they recommend repetition because it takes people hearing about it more than once, more than twice, more than three times, the more they hear about it, the more likely they are ultimately to buy it.

It’s the same reason. Retargeting ads though. Annoying work. And why abandoned cart emails though? Annoying work. I mean, and these marketing techniques, they work and I just, in part of me, And like, honestly, Scott, if, if I were you and I would have been a part of a launch and I had this big channel, I know I can get like 15,000, 20,000 views in a day.

If, if, if someone paid me money to do that. And then they in turn did some other actions that made my marketing less effective as a marketer. I get disappointed. I get disappointed when clients do things. Uh, that make my marketing less effective, whether or not they knew that they were doing it. And that, that is kind of a, um, that’s, that’s, I’ve been, I’ve done recording sessions with people and they asked for like a bunch of options on solos and they paid me.

And then instead of asking me to make revisions on anything, or like, maybe take this part of that and that part of that, they just cut the solo completely. And I’m like, why didn’t you just, you paid me why he just asked me to do it again, or with different effects or something else, or try this or try that.

Why didn’t you do, what was, why did you pay me? And then just not use what I was doing or use me you’re already paying me for it. So that’s, I feel like there’s a little bit of it similarity there and that’s, I would perceive it as, as someone who does do marketing.

Scott: [01:27:33] Yeah, I think a fun realization I’m having, as we like talk about this is, it does just kind of highlight how we’re all, we’re all kind of just figuring this stuff out.

Like we don’t really have these super well thought out plans and that’s why we get into situations like this, where people are unhappy or don’t feel very good. And it’s like, cause it’s, it’s pretty relaxed for the most part. And, uh, and yeah, it’s, it’s growing and changing and yeah, there’s something nice about that.

Where. We’re solving a problem or are trying to figure out how to manage something.

Emily: [01:28:07] Yeah. And though, I’m sure like walrus has marketing people in our marketing team. It’s not nearly as advanced the marketing effort as a lot of things. Like it’s still a, still a relatively small company. And they’re doing and they are doing their best.

And, um, I hope they take whatever criticisms criticisms they get and they, they learn from it. I don’t, I don’t anticipate that they ever asked me to do another demo for after this. But, um, I mean, I, I get it and, uh, if it’s not the fed, then it’s not the fed and that’s fine. Um, but. Uh, yeah, I guess I don’t really know I was going with that there.

They’re just doing, everyone’s kinda doing their best. And I think that that as long as you can, like take criticism on the chin and, um, at least consider it instead of just writing it off, um, I think that’s important. And that would be, I think the best thing that they could do is whether or not they change how they do things or their approach to things.

Um, that matters a little bit less than that. They actually took it to heart and considered it. And if that, after careful consideration there, like with the way that we’re doing things is still working for us and it’s working for them. Yeah. You know, and there’s really not a lot to say about it. I’m past that.

Yeah. I

Andrew: [01:29:27] mean, so something I said at the beginning of the episode, kind of reflecting back on a hundred episodes is, uh, for, for me personally, one of my takeaways is this idea of personal growth and listening to criticism and other perspectives, and really trying to soak that in. Yeah, I think that’s okay.

I think that seems like a really good theme to kind of wrap this episode up in a bow in. Um, and Scott, you, you said that you don’t, you’re out of your comfort zone and you don’t like controversy and kind of putting stirring, rocking the boat like that. Um, but I mean, here we are, you

Emily: [01:30:02] sure.

Andrew: [01:30:03] You, you made some provocative statements and here we are.

And I don’t think that where we’re at now is necessarily a bad thing. I think it’s really great that we’re having this conversation and I think you’re absolutely correct in your assessment that this conversation was going to need to be had at some point. Uh, whether it was you or someone else bringing it up.

And I think kind of taking in that theme of taking criticism and constructive feedback on the nose. Yeah. I think really comes back to me right now. Thinking back through everything we’ve just talked about and really processed out loud, I think that’s really healthy for, for us. I think it’s really healthy for this industry and I think that’s part of what.

Makes this industry feel like a community is if we can continue to operate on that level. I think we’ve, I think that’s a lot of what I really love about this community. And I think I’m not alone in that.

Emily: [01:30:54] No, I don’t think you’re alone in that either.

Scott: [01:30:56] Well said

Emily: [01:31:00] I don’t always like your wrap-ups Andrew, but I liked that one.

Andrew: [01:31:03] Ah, is that a, was that Jeff winger enough? Did I

Emily: [01:31:06] get that? Oh, going back to community a season four was the gas leak season. I was wrong. Nazis and three,

Andrew: [01:31:15] I

Emily: [01:31:15] think so. Yeah. That’s look forward to, did you watch communities? We should probably wrap it up, but yeah.

Did you have a favorite, favorite moment or episode?

Scott: [01:31:26] Ooh, um, No, it’s actually been a minute, but

Emily: [01:31:34] I liked the timelines episode the best, I think.

Scott: [01:31:37] Oh yeah, that was a good one. That was, that was one of few shows that have kept me up until the wee hours. Just taking it in

Emily: [01:31:47] Rick and I had that, my husband and I have been watching Cobra, Kai, and he had, and we watched like the first episode.

He’s like, is there something I should have seen to like, understand any of this? And I was like, Oh,

Andrew: [01:31:58] kid

Emily: [01:31:59] never seen karate kid until the other night. Yeah. And then we started some of the SQLs I’m like, these are just too dramatic. I love karate kid. The first one, because it’s just about a kid. Who has some bullies and wants to get the girl.

And it’s really simple and relatable. And then it gets like the SQLs get into weird stuff. Like for some reason, the sensei’s want to kill him. I don’t understand it. And also I would prefer not to understand.

Scott: [01:32:23] Yeah. Can we, can we veer off for a second? Cause I think it’s really fun to start watching things halfway through, like, whether it’s like starting with season three or whatever.

I think it’s actually better a lot of the time to do that.

Emily: [01:32:40] Cause it takes so long for shows, especially to like get their footing. I think the first season is often not the best season for shows anyway.

Andrew: [01:32:50] Oh yeah. The first season of the office is a train wreck.

Emily: [01:32:54] First, first, several episodes of 30 rock and parks and record bad, or just not what you would want from them.

Scott: [01:33:01] And if you do it that way, it means that every show is going to be at least kind of a mystery.

Emily: [01:33:06] That’s a good point.

Andrew: [01:33:08] I mean, part of me wants to disagree with you, but I’m also a huge star Wars fan and they started on episode four. I think, I think you’re onto something.

Emily: [01:33:18] That’s a good point though. I’ve never seen,

Scott: [01:33:22] I’ve never seen battle star Galactica, but I’ve heard that.

That’s how, that’s how it’s a advise that you watch that. So, I guess there was a movie and then there was a TV show

Emily: [01:33:33] fused. I get Battlestar Galactica and battlefield earth confused. Which one was the Scientology one

Andrew: [01:33:38] battlefield earth.

Emily: [01:33:39] Yeah.

Andrew: [01:33:40] That was so bad.

Scott: [01:33:42] So obviously none of us have anyway, that’s just one of those things where like the fans of the show are just like, Oh, don’t watch that part.

Just start here. It’ll be better.

Emily: [01:33:50] Yeah. Yeah. I don’t want Rick to watch. I don’t want my husband to watch ’em two and three. Uh, for chronic head before we finish the, the Cobra, Kai, there is stuff in there that’s kind of like mysterious. They do mention the villains from the third karate kid. But, uh, I, yeah, I, I do think it gets watchable and understandable.

When you, when you haven’t seen karate kid, but it helps to have at least seen the first one, because it literally starts the first scene is the end of karate kid. Part one,

Scott: [01:34:27] you got a little something then?

Emily: [01:34:28] Yeah. Yeah. You get a little bit of context. And then 34 years later, It’s uh, it’s good, but, um, it’s, it’s, it’s one 30 your time.

Uh, well, actually it’s a lot later than that. It’s almost two o’clock we’ve been doing this for a while. I want to be more respectful of your time.

Andrew: [01:34:46] We’re at 96 minutes now we’re so close to a hundred minutes for a hundred episodes.

Scott: [01:34:50] We got to do it

Emily: [01:34:53] fair. Uh, so where can people find you, Scott?

Scott: [01:34:57] Ooh. Um, well, I have this YouTube channel called knobs.

Um, is that what you’re asking?

Emily: [01:35:04] Yeah. Primarily, if there’s anything else you want to promote music you’ve done or, Oh,

Scott: [01:35:08] plugs. Um, I am putting out plugs. I’ve been. I’ve been a part of this silly, um, improv synth outfit called play date, and we’re going to be putting out a record soon. We did, um, we live tracked.

We live multitracks, which was really an interesting approach, a bunch of live shows and, um, it’s called play date plus one. So it’s us as well as another, uh, local musician who play more traditional instruments like clarinets or pedal steel. Um, So that’s gonna come up fairly soon. Um, what else can I tell you?

Emily: [01:35:52] That’s pretty cool.

Scott: [01:35:54] There’s I mean, there’s fun stuff going on. We just did a big blooper update. Um, yup. I haven’t released any music as myself. Um, Ever, and I would like to fix that, but I’m a, yeah. The situation hasn’t been right in terms of where I live and my mindset.

But

Andrew: [01:36:14] I think when you get to that point, make sure to do that through district kid.

Emily: [01:36:19] And he’s our, he’s our affiliate

Scott: [01:36:21] link on

Emily: [01:36:22] the record. Yes. Tying it together. Forget to smash that affiliate link. What are those things? It came back around. I’d love it. When that happened.

Andrew: [01:36:34] This episode has had a lot of like tying in, come back around kind of stuff. People might start. People might listen to this and accuse us of having scripted things and being nefarious and trying to socially engineer them.

Scott: [01:36:48] Well, that’s what happens when you bring on an influencer? Andrew,

Emily: [01:36:53] that’s a comment on one of my videos that I should use a script. I’m like, why do you want that? Yeah,

Scott: [01:36:59] you just can’t win.

Emily: [01:37:01] No, you can’t either. You’re you’re too scripted or you’re not scripted enough or you talked too much or you don’t explain what’s happening enough.

Like you can’t please everybody. So you might as well just do it the way that you like to do it. And if, and if other people find it and they dig it, that’s neat. And if you, if someone offers you criticism that you kind of agree with, then maybe try it out.

Scott: [01:37:24] I think that’s the best parameter. It’s a

Andrew: [01:37:27] cool. So then I’m going to go off script then.

Cause we got a little bit, uh, nearly a minute before the hundredth minute of the episode,

Emily: [01:37:34] you know, it’s, you know, it’s not actually a, say a hundred minutes because we’re going to have to put Michelle song at the end.

Andrew: [01:37:38] I know. I know. But, but for the talking portion, this is important. So I’m going to commit to do something that really unprofessional, but Scott, do you like volume pedals?

Scott: [01:37:52] Um, I’ve never really gotten the habit of using them.

Andrew: [01:37:55] How about

Emily: [01:37:57] the petals?

Scott: [01:37:58] Yeah, they’re, they’re pretty, they’re pretty nice.

Andrew: [01:38:01] Have you, uh, have you ever noticed that they’re just kind of boring looking on a board. I mean, you being someone who just loves the

Emily: [01:38:07] aesthetic,

Scott: [01:38:08] I have had that side. Yeah.

Andrew: [01:38:11] Did he know that there’s a really great way that you can fix that in grand style?

Oh, tell me more. Well, I happen to be the owner and proprietor of Fox Cairo pedal toppers.

Scott: [01:38:22] I didn’t see that coming.

Andrew: [01:38:25] We make custom pedal toppers that are I. Better glow in the dark, and we can do any color of the rainbow in any design. That you want, and we can make that aesthetic fit for your board.

Scott: [01:38:37] I’m so glad that you shared that useful information with me.

Andrew,

Andrew: [01:38:45] you inspired me to go off script and I didn’t have a written script to pitch my product.

Emily: [01:38:51] Do you like funky socks? Do I have a, get an exciting

Scott: [01:38:57] expression? Pedals are mediocre.

Emily: [01:39:00] Make

Andrew: [01:39:01] them blow in the dark and be radical,

Emily: [01:39:04] functional.

Andrew: [01:39:06] Fuck them in red. That’s the

Emily: [01:39:08] Cairo

Andrew: [01:39:09] hashtag express yourself

Emily: [01:39:11] express. You’ll say,

Scott: [01:39:13] I think you could make it go with that off script thing.

Andrew: [01:39:18] All right. Well, we are about, we were like five seconds from hitting the,

Emily: [01:39:20] uh, My name is Emily.

Andrew: [01:39:23] My name is

Emily: [01:39:23] Andrew Scott, Scott.

Andrew: [01:39:26] Goodbye.